Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Spanish term or phrase:
egresada
English translation:
who graduated (from)
Added to glossary by
Charles Davis
Oct 29, 2017 09:59
6 yrs ago
31 viewers *
Spanish term
Australia
egresada
Spanish to English
Other
Education / Pedagogy
Architecture degree plan
This isn't really a term search as such, apologies if this is in the wrong location, I couldn't see where there was a general language forum or spanish-spanish.
It's just that in my reading of the following paragraph, I feel that there's a word missing, or the grammar doesn't quite add up. I'm reading 'egresada' as an adjective rather than the past participle. I'm just wondering if anyone agrees that it's badly written, or perhaps I've missed something in the Spanish construction
Here is the original:
"El que suscribe, Lic (nombre), de la Secretaria Tecnica de la Universidad, deja constancia que: a solicitud de la licenciada (otro nombre) con DNI No xxx), egresada de la universidad XXX, el 29/9/2015, como Licenciada en nutricion, dicho titulo obtenido tiene validez Nacional y para el ejercicio profesional dentro de la republica argentina, deberá obtener la matricula que extiende el Ministerio de Salud"
My translation would be as follows (and if the Spanish is badly written I will reflect that in the English) but it doesn't read well:
"The undersigned (name), of the Technical Secretariat of this University, declares that: at the request of ( other name), holder of national I.D. (DNI) No. XXX), graduate of XXX University, on the 29/9/2015, with a Bachelor’s in Nutrition, this title is nationally valid and that to practice professionally within the Argentine Republic, she must register with the Ministry of Health"
Thanks!
It's just that in my reading of the following paragraph, I feel that there's a word missing, or the grammar doesn't quite add up. I'm reading 'egresada' as an adjective rather than the past participle. I'm just wondering if anyone agrees that it's badly written, or perhaps I've missed something in the Spanish construction
Here is the original:
"El que suscribe, Lic (nombre), de la Secretaria Tecnica de la Universidad, deja constancia que: a solicitud de la licenciada (otro nombre) con DNI No xxx), egresada de la universidad XXX, el 29/9/2015, como Licenciada en nutricion, dicho titulo obtenido tiene validez Nacional y para el ejercicio profesional dentro de la republica argentina, deberá obtener la matricula que extiende el Ministerio de Salud"
My translation would be as follows (and if the Spanish is badly written I will reflect that in the English) but it doesn't read well:
"The undersigned (name), of the Technical Secretariat of this University, declares that: at the request of ( other name), holder of national I.D. (DNI) No. XXX), graduate of XXX University, on the 29/9/2015, with a Bachelor’s in Nutrition, this title is nationally valid and that to practice professionally within the Argentine Republic, she must register with the Ministry of Health"
Thanks!
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +5 | who graduated (from) |
Charles Davis
|
| 5 +4 | graduate |
Natalia Olatz Prio Platz
|
| 5 | who finished studies in ... university / carreer |
VICTOR PRIETO
|
Change log
Nov 3, 2017 06:19: Charles Davis Created KOG entry
Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:
Non-PRO (1): patinba
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Proposed translations
+5
44 mins
Selected
who graduated (from)
I don't disagree with what Natalia says about egresar meaning to graduate and egresado/a as a noun meaning a graduate, but I wanted to answer your specific question about whether this is badly written and how it works grammatically.
In my opinion, "egresada" is not a noun here; it's verbal. The addition of the date, 29/9/2015, shows that "egresada" refers to an event: the action of graduating. It is grammatically equivalent to "que egresó".
In Spanish, the past participle is normally passive in sense, and of course it is used to form the passive voice: "fue encontrado", for example. But it can also be used in an active sense. You can say, for example, "llegados a este punto", referring to a group of people, meaning "having arrived at this point" or "having reached this point". The sense of "llegados" is active here, not passive. Obviously it doesn't mean "habiendo sido llegados": llegar is an intransitive verb (you can't "arrive" someone). Similarly with egresar, which is also intransitive (in this sense of graduating: no se puede egresar a alguien). It's active; "egresada" means "habiendo egresado". In the context of this sentence, as I say, I think it's best rendered as "who graduated", and "de la universidad X" will be "from X University" in this case. So it's quite correct grammatically. It means "who graduated from University X on 29/9/2015 as a Licentiate in" or "with a Licentiate degree in". (The translation of "Licenciada" is another issue, discussed many times here, but I won't go into that here.)
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Note added at 1 hr (2017-10-29 11:32:46 GMT)
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Ah! I see what you mean. You're right that strictly speaking it's loosely expressed. As I say, "egresada de la universidad XXX, el 29/9/2015, como Licenciada en nutricion" is equivalent to a relative clause qualifying "la licenciada X". The main structure of the first half of the sentence is:
"deja constancia que a solicitud de la licenciada X [...] dicho titulo obtenido tiene validez Nacional [...]"
This literally says "I declare that the degree is valid at the request of the graduate", but what it actually means to say is "I declare at the request of the graduate that the degree is valid"; "a solicitud de la licenciada X" really qualifies "deja constancia", not "tiene validez". So yes, you're right, the syntax is a bit wonky and you will need to rearrange it in English. Sorry I failed to address this. I hope that helps.
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Note added at 1 hr (2017-10-29 11:39:09 GMT)
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I should have says that the literal meaning is "I declare that at the request of the graduate the degree is valid", but what it should be saying is "I declare at the request of the graduate that the degree is valid". In the Spanish, the "que" after "deja constancia" should be moved all the way forward to just before "dicho título": "deja constancia (bla bla bla) que dicho título [...]".
In my opinion, "egresada" is not a noun here; it's verbal. The addition of the date, 29/9/2015, shows that "egresada" refers to an event: the action of graduating. It is grammatically equivalent to "que egresó".
In Spanish, the past participle is normally passive in sense, and of course it is used to form the passive voice: "fue encontrado", for example. But it can also be used in an active sense. You can say, for example, "llegados a este punto", referring to a group of people, meaning "having arrived at this point" or "having reached this point". The sense of "llegados" is active here, not passive. Obviously it doesn't mean "habiendo sido llegados": llegar is an intransitive verb (you can't "arrive" someone). Similarly with egresar, which is also intransitive (in this sense of graduating: no se puede egresar a alguien). It's active; "egresada" means "habiendo egresado". In the context of this sentence, as I say, I think it's best rendered as "who graduated", and "de la universidad X" will be "from X University" in this case. So it's quite correct grammatically. It means "who graduated from University X on 29/9/2015 as a Licentiate in" or "with a Licentiate degree in". (The translation of "Licenciada" is another issue, discussed many times here, but I won't go into that here.)
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Note added at 1 hr (2017-10-29 11:32:46 GMT)
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Ah! I see what you mean. You're right that strictly speaking it's loosely expressed. As I say, "egresada de la universidad XXX, el 29/9/2015, como Licenciada en nutricion" is equivalent to a relative clause qualifying "la licenciada X". The main structure of the first half of the sentence is:
"deja constancia que a solicitud de la licenciada X [...] dicho titulo obtenido tiene validez Nacional [...]"
This literally says "I declare that the degree is valid at the request of the graduate", but what it actually means to say is "I declare at the request of the graduate that the degree is valid"; "a solicitud de la licenciada X" really qualifies "deja constancia", not "tiene validez". So yes, you're right, the syntax is a bit wonky and you will need to rearrange it in English. Sorry I failed to address this. I hope that helps.
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Note added at 1 hr (2017-10-29 11:39:09 GMT)
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I should have says that the literal meaning is "I declare that at the request of the graduate the degree is valid", but what it should be saying is "I declare at the request of the graduate that the degree is valid". In the Spanish, the "que" after "deja constancia" should be moved all the way forward to just before "dicho título": "deja constancia (bla bla bla) que dicho título [...]".
Note from asker:
| Thanks Charles, yes, that was really what I wanted to get into, I only put 'egrasada' in the subject line as I had to pick something and there was a slight question over the sense of it in that context. that said, I agree with your painting of it as verbal, but then the problem seems to be that there is no actual 'main' verb in the sentence (I'm sorry I don't know all the relevant grammatical terms) because 'egresada' in this case really becomes an adjective, or part of a noun group. It is a qualifier of the person named and so then 'deja constancia que' is left hanging. If it said: 'deja constancia que (nombre), con DNI xxx, ha egrasado /egresó el (fecha) ... then it would make sense to me. Similarly, if it said: ''deja constancia que (nombre), con DNI xxx,egresada de la universidad, ha completado los estudios etc etc. then I wouldn't find it odd, but in the same way as my English translation is missing a word or two, so the Spanish one seems to be. Your example of 'llegados a la puente' is the same. You could say 'llegados a la puente, decidieron descansar un rato' but you wouldn't simply say: 'Los chicos, llegados a la puente a las seis.' you'd have to say 'llegaron' o 'habían llegado' |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
neilmac
: As I posted earlier: (= s/o who graduated from) ...
1 hr
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Cheers, Neil ;-) Yes, quite right, but what seems to have been causing trouble is the whole sentence.
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| agree |
lugoben
1 hr
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Thanks, lugoben :)
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| agree |
Chema Nieto Castañón
: Egresar (RAE); salir de una institución docente tras terminar los estudios. El sentido del original es Completó sus estudios en la Universidad X obteniendo el título de Lic. en Nutrición... /./ Sí; eso lo has aclarado ya, en tanto que estructura verbal ;)
2 hrs
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Gracias, Saltasebes :) Sí, efectivamente, y detrás de esto está la diferenciación latinoamericana entre completar el programa academíco y sacar el título profesional. Pero el problema de Catherine no era este término sino la sintaxis.
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| agree |
Steven Huddleston
: The devil always hides in the details...
4 hrs
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Very true! Thanks, Steven :)
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| agree |
Mónica Hanlan
1 day 23 mins
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Thanks, Mónica :)
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "thanks for the answer and additional help!"
+4
11 mins
Natalia Olatz Prio Platz
Spain
Spain
Native in Spanish
Works in field
Spain
Knowledge, accuracy and readiness
Native in: Spanish (Variant: Standard-Spain) 
Works in: English to Spanish, Spanish to English, French to Spanish, and 9 more.
graduate
You are right and I find that your translation is correct, Catherine. "Egresado/a" translates in English as "graduate" if used as a noun or "graduated" if used as an adjective. I found this in Oxford Dictionary but is based on my experience too.
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Note added at 7 hrs (2017-10-29 17:38:04 GMT)
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I agree on the fact that not the best grammar is used in this text, but the first main verbal group (or action) is "deja constancia (de) que", the second action is "dicho título obtenido tiene validez nacional", being the third "deberá obtener la matrícula". I would translate around these three verbal groups that are indicating the action of the whole sentence and not worry too much about anything else. I mention this because it is true that being official jargon some of the actions are somewhat hidden and my explanation may clarify which are these actions.
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Note added at 7 hrs (2017-10-29 17:38:04 GMT)
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I agree on the fact that not the best grammar is used in this text, but the first main verbal group (or action) is "deja constancia (de) que", the second action is "dicho título obtenido tiene validez nacional", being the third "deberá obtener la matrícula". I would translate around these three verbal groups that are indicating the action of the whole sentence and not worry too much about anything else. I mention this because it is true that being official jargon some of the actions are somewhat hidden and my explanation may clarify which are these actions.
Example sentence:
egresada de la universidad XXX
graduate of XXX University
1 day 2 hrs
VICTOR PRIETO
Peru
Peru
Native in Spanish
Peru
15+ years in Technical-Scientific field
Native in: Spanish (Variants: Peruvian, Latin American)
Works in: English to Spanish, Spanish to English
who finished studies in ... university / carreer
It is righ if you use graduated in this case but sometimes egresado (a) is just a reference about which university or superior educational institution you become from.
In Perú, for example, when you finished all the courses you must get a document that cetificates only that (constancia de egresado) with that you make the request of your diploma as Bachellor. Which certificates that, but it is not the grade title yet. before finishing the courses and geting you Bachellor certificate, you must make a Tesis or a titulation course in order to obtain the grade of Licenciate or Engineer, which means you can develope in your carrer as a professional.
In Perú, for example, when you finished all the courses you must get a document that cetificates only that (constancia de egresado) with that you make the request of your diploma as Bachellor. Which certificates that, but it is not the grade title yet. before finishing the courses and geting you Bachellor certificate, you must make a Tesis or a titulation course in order to obtain the grade of Licenciate or Engineer, which means you can develope in your carrer as a professional.
Discussion
Thanks for helping me reach that conclusion!
I'm glad there's some agreement as to it being badly written, that was the main thing I wanted to check, but there still seems to be some disagreement as to whether the declaration is that the student has graduated, and this title is valid or that the graduate student's title is valid. For the practical purposes of the translation, it probably doesn't actually matter and I'd better get on and submit it, but I just wanted to figure it out for the sake of good practice. Furthermore if I decide on what's intended, I still need to decide whether to correct the grammar, or reflect the ambiguity in English.