| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Poll: Do you offer translation into a non-native language? Thread poster: ProZ.com Staff
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| | Marjolein Snippe 
Netherlands
Local time: 10:42
Member (2012)
English to Dutch
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| I don't offer as such... | Aug 4, 2021 |
...but I have occasionally agreed to do this as an exception.
I usually explain that the quality will almost always be better if someone translates into their native tongue and offer to try to help find a suitable translator.
Most people who have asked me so far were happy with my explanations and some have decided to ask someone I had recommended or suggested. One of them recently came back and thanked me for the recommendation, as the translator had been particularly helpful.
... See more ...but I have occasionally agreed to do this as an exception.
I usually explain that the quality will almost always be better if someone translates into their native tongue and offer to try to help find a suitable translator.
Most people who have asked me so far were happy with my explanations and some have decided to ask someone I had recommended or suggested. One of them recently came back and thanked me for the recommendation, as the translator had been particularly helpful.
Once or twice, the client assures me that it is me, or my particular combination of skills (say, someone who is familiar with rowing jargon in Portuguese, Dutch and English - this has actually happened!) they want.
As long as I like the job, and they are aware that I am not a native speaker and that this may shimmer through in the translation, I may then accept. ▲ Collapse
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and it is not that black or white.
Some people have more than one 'native language' due to international marriages etc.
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I translate exclusively into European Portuguese, my native language. I lived in a French-speaking country for 30 years, I speak French fluently and I know I could do a more than passable translation into French, but I choose not to.
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| The quality is not good enough | Aug 4, 2021 |
I have occasionally translated very short passages into my source language, or larger jobs for friends and non-profit clients, but I always get a Dane to check it through. I know that in general I make small errors - which I sometimes find a week later, but not in time for the deadline! I usually say I write Danish as well as most Danes, but not up to professional standards.
Translating into a non-native language is a very good exercise, so I do it now and then, but not for clients.... See more I have occasionally translated very short passages into my source language, or larger jobs for friends and non-profit clients, but I always get a Dane to check it through. I know that in general I make small errors - which I sometimes find a week later, but not in time for the deadline! I usually say I write Danish as well as most Danes, but not up to professional standards.
Translating into a non-native language is a very good exercise, so I do it now and then, but not for clients. I don't regard it as wrong - I grew up with my father translating from one non-native language into another, as a Bible translator, and that is how many of the great pioneers worked!
They studied the language, made dictionaries as they went along, and translated as soon as they felt confident enough to put the message across! My father also trained native speakers to take over, and said they did a better job, years later, than his generation.
Understanding the source is the first half of translation, and that is quite important.  ▲ Collapse
| | | | Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 11:42
Member
English to Turkish
| 'Wrong to do so' | Aug 4, 2021 |
I bet 99% of those voted 'wrong to do so' are native English speakers living in English speaking countries. Let me ask them a question: how many of you have ever taken an interest in learning Turkish, Georgian, Slovakian, Chechen language or living in those countries? Now would it be 'wrong' to have a native of those languages to translate into English in the absence of a native English speaker translating from those languages? No, it's not 'wrong to do so', it's just 'more trouble than it's wor... See more I bet 99% of those voted 'wrong to do so' are native English speakers living in English speaking countries. Let me ask them a question: how many of you have ever taken an interest in learning Turkish, Georgian, Slovakian, Chechen language or living in those countries? Now would it be 'wrong' to have a native of those languages to translate into English in the absence of a native English speaker translating from those languages? No, it's not 'wrong to do so', it's just 'more trouble than it's worth', that's all.
I was contacted by a vendor manager a few weeks ago, asking me if I had any experience in translating medical content into English from Turkish. I said yes, but told him that I wasn't a native English speaker. He didn't reply afterwards. The idiot clearly thought some British or American medical graduates or, better yet, doctors might actually want to learn Turkish and enter into translation business. Good luck finding them... ▲ Collapse
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I know this post is likely to make me a hate target for some (on account of me stealing their market share), but I've always had lots of Rus/Eng translation jobs; it's just that my customers always wanted me to do those jobs for them. However, things are not so simple here. Multiple times, the customer would order that my translations be proofread by a native speaker, and every time this happened, the manager would send the proofread version back to me for review, and I could always find some ch... See more I know this post is likely to make me a hate target for some (on account of me stealing their market share), but I've always had lots of Rus/Eng translation jobs; it's just that my customers always wanted me to do those jobs for them. However, things are not so simple here. Multiple times, the customer would order that my translations be proofread by a native speaker, and every time this happened, the manager would send the proofread version back to me for review, and I could always find some changes that seriouly altered the meaning of the source text, some of them even assuming that I'd misunderstood the Russian text and pretending to rectify the misunderstanding. I know, those proofreaders might have been hired to do the job for the sole reason of being native English speakers (and, possibly, knowing a bit of Russian), but this problem is widespread, my native language is difficult. I happened to read only two truly beautiful Rus/Eng translations made by non-Russians (one Brit, one American). Those guys charged five times the normal rate and specialized in marketing, so they wouldn't do electrical engineering.
Maybe the point of this forum is that only top-tier professionals must remain in the business and get the rates they deserve, but again, sometimes things get complicated. One of the worst proofreading jobs ever done on my translations by native English speakers was done by a U. S. company that specialized in preparing academic texts for publication. To be fair, they probably didn't understand Russian, but then they also seemed completely disinterested in what their changes actually meant. To them, there was no difference between the Linear Solid Model and linear solid of the model (I bet they never looked anything up, not even in Wikipedia). After putting things back in order, I wanted to write a complaint so the customer wouldn't have to pay those frauds full price, but they told me it's okay. So, maybe what I'm doing is profoundly wrong. I know my limitations, though. I'll never take on Rus/Fre or Rus/Ger projects, although I can translate from those languages into Russian
[Edited at 2021-08-04 10:20 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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I mostly work for international organizations that insist that translations be done by native speakers. Most of my translations are for publication. So I don't do it. I suppose the decision depends on the purpose of the text and the availability of translators in the languages in question.
Simultaneous interpreters are rated for A and B languages, A being truly native. Still, many of them work into their B languages and do a good job.
Personally, I have never met a tru... See more I mostly work for international organizations that insist that translations be done by native speakers. Most of my translations are for publication. So I don't do it. I suppose the decision depends on the purpose of the text and the availability of translators in the languages in question.
Simultaneous interpreters are rated for A and B languages, A being truly native. Still, many of them work into their B languages and do a good job.
Personally, I have never met a true bilingual, but that doesn't necessarily mean that those who are not should not be translating into their L2 (or B) language. ▲ Collapse
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| with proofreading | Aug 4, 2021 |
As an exception and with proofreading or recommending proofreading by a native speaker to the client.
| | | | | No, I believe it is wrong to do so. | Aug 4, 2021 |
In my view, translation is a profession where you sell the written word, like journalists or authors do. I would apply the same quality requirements on texts. The text output should be of a quality that would be ready to print without extra editing. I believe that in general, only native speakers can achieve this. There might be exceptions.
At the same time, I am aware that translation is a market, and follows market rules. When there is a scarcity of available native translators fo... See more In my view, translation is a profession where you sell the written word, like journalists or authors do. I would apply the same quality requirements on texts. The text output should be of a quality that would be ready to print without extra editing. I believe that in general, only native speakers can achieve this. There might be exceptions.
At the same time, I am aware that translation is a market, and follows market rules. When there is a scarcity of available native translators for certain language pairs, rates will rise and clients will turn to other solutions/providers. This is okay as long as all parties involved are aware what they are doing and what they will get.
I am sure that all professionals in this forum deliver high quality to their clients, but the fact is that there is a lot of poor content out there written by obvious non-natives, and this poor content damages reputations and sales and defeats the purpose it was written for. ▲ Collapse
| | | | The Misha
Local time: 04:42
Russian to English
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| MORALLY wrong, it should have said | Aug 4, 2021 |
And those of us who do it should be tarred, feathered and run out of town - on a rail or otherwise. Or better yet, put on a spaceship and shot into space without the option of returning, as some suggested we do with that certain deplorable, filthy rich individual. You know who I am talking about, wink-wink:)
Oh, and don't even get me started on those who translate between two or more languages that are not technically their own. Goodness gracious, there should be a separate circle i... See more And those of us who do it should be tarred, feathered and run out of town - on a rail or otherwise. Or better yet, put on a spaceship and shot into space without the option of returning, as some suggested we do with that certain deplorable, filthy rich individual. You know who I am talking about, wink-wink:)
Oh, and don't even get me started on those who translate between two or more languages that are not technically their own. Goodness gracious, there should be a separate circle in hell for such abominable malefactors. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | A native speaker plus | Aug 4, 2021 |
Following the logic of what has been written above, I would like to add something. There are so many jobs where the translator can't make do with just being native and capable of writing well. Those people won't qualify for jobs focusing on science, engineering, or law. I once reviewed a few test translations that had to do with innovative agricultural products, all done by native English speakers. Most of them could write well, but they were so helpless when it came to the intricacies of the su... See more Following the logic of what has been written above, I would like to add something. There are so many jobs where the translator can't make do with just being native and capable of writing well. Those people won't qualify for jobs focusing on science, engineering, or law. I once reviewed a few test translations that had to do with innovative agricultural products, all done by native English speakers. Most of them could write well, but they were so helpless when it came to the intricacies of the subject-matter. They just didn't know how to do research for projects like that. So, does this mean that every text written by an engineer must be translated by an engineer who holds a degree in the same discipline and does professional translations for fun? And that such multi-trade professionals are available for every job? And that there are companies with immense translation budgets who can afford to pay whatever rates such a professional will charge? Looks like a spherical translation market in a vacuum. P. S.: I ended up getting the job for which those test translations were performed, and quite a few more from the same customer, probably because I get very serious about researching my translations (which, I'm sure, is true about most people here) ▲ Collapse
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| When accuracy is all important, a non-native may be the only translator good enough | Aug 4, 2021 |
I have lived with my source language as my 'language of habitual use' for more than forty years. I have studied it and know many of the idiomatic expressions and topical references as well as the natives. I may not use them in the same way when I write, but I recognise them when I see or hear them, and I know from proofreading the work of colleagues, that English natives who live in the UK do not always understand them correctly!
On the other hand, I have to work hard to keep up wi... See more I have lived with my source language as my 'language of habitual use' for more than forty years. I have studied it and know many of the idiomatic expressions and topical references as well as the natives. I may not use them in the same way when I write, but I recognise them when I see or hear them, and I know from proofreading the work of colleagues, that English natives who live in the UK do not always understand them correctly!
On the other hand, I have to work hard to keep up with my native language. There are many things that did not exist when I was young and lived in the UK - what are they called, and how do people talk about them now? And how has the language developed since I lived in England back in the last century? Being a native speaker is an advantage, but it is not a universal magic solution.
When it comes to highly specialised language fields, I have Danish colleagues who live in the UK and can produce a better translation than I could, or many other English natives. They really know the terminology, the collocations and the jargon and are familiar with the finer details - it is the kind of situation described above by Denis Fesic.
It is important to specialise in the subject area as much as the language: if the translator does not understand the source correctly, then native language makes no difference: he/she cannot translate accurately.
Sadly, apart from a few mainstream languages, English natives are not encouraged to learn other languages, and as long as there are not enough of them who do, they will have to accept the translators from other countries who have taken the trouble to learn English really thoroughly. Many do in fact write very good English, and their translations are accurate, which in some situations is more important than slightly non-native syntax.
[Edited at 2021-08-04 15:25 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | neilmac
Spain
Local time: 10:42
Spanish to English
+ ...
Although I should really be firmly in the "No, I believe it is wrong to do so" pile, after living and working in Spain for over three decades, teaching and now translating, my Spanish is good enough that in extremis I might consider doing so. However, in that case, I would ensure that my draft was revised and corrected or improved by a capable native speaker colleague.
Having said that, last month one client sent me three documents to translate into English, and I let my aforementioned cap... See more Although I should really be firmly in the "No, I believe it is wrong to do so" pile, after living and working in Spain for over three decades, teaching and now translating, my Spanish is good enough that in extremis I might consider doing so. However, in that case, I would ensure that my draft was revised and corrected or improved by a capable native speaker colleague.
Having said that, last month one client sent me three documents to translate into English, and I let my aforementioned capable Spanish-speaking colleague translate two of them, because I know she is perfectly able to do a good job, which she did. I revised and checked her drafts and only remember having to change one small thing, apart from the odd comma. Nevertheless, neither of us would dream of tackling translation into our respective L2s on our own. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Only In The Distant Past, Pro Bono | Aug 4, 2021 |
Since I was (and still am) extremely fluent in every aspect of the Spanish language, esp. after I spent part of my undergraduate college years studying and living independently and mixing with the natives every evening, esp. with gorgeous-looking guys at the tapas bars (!) in Spain, I felt no qualms about offering my translation services, pro bono, to at least a few local social services agencies in 2004. In every case, they had a native Hispanic on site who edited my translations, anyway. I rea... See more Since I was (and still am) extremely fluent in every aspect of the Spanish language, esp. after I spent part of my undergraduate college years studying and living independently and mixing with the natives every evening, esp. with gorgeous-looking guys at the tapas bars (!) in Spain, I felt no qualms about offering my translation services, pro bono, to at least a few local social services agencies in 2004. In every case, they had a native Hispanic on site who edited my translations, anyway. I really enjoyed the exercise, and I think that experience turned me into a much better SP>EN translator. And I hope my efforts have been of value to the agencies and the large Hispanic community in the next city over that the former serve. But I haven't done any pro bono translations since then, or into any language other than my native one, American English. And I never will again, because my work, as far as pro bono goes, was over a long time ago.
[Edited at 2021-08-04 17:48 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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