| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] | Proposal that people who answer questions via the Kudoz system should be obliged to be nice. Thread poster: Michael Beijer
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Cetacea 
Switzerland
Local time: 12:27
English to German
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| CV upon request | Jan 26, 2011 |
Rose Newell wrote:
I don't think the threat is too great, but I'm worried now about how open my CV is...
I agree that a block feature could come in handy, but for the time being, in your ProZ profile, you do have the option of only providing a CV upon request, and I doubt that you would decide to send it to a--ahem--daffodil.
The guy is obviously new, arrogant and ill-informed on ProZ rules and netiquette, so I doubt anyone will take his comments seriously, but I am worried about someone like that bad-mouthing me to clients...
He could only bad-mouth you to potential clients, and how is he going to find out about those? As for your existing clients, I'm sure your track record speaks for itself, so don't worry too much about it. It would only give him the importance he doesn't have.
Having said that, I'm often surprised about how freely people publish detailed client lists in their profiles. Giving out references can backfire on you, as I found out the hard way when I started in this business way back before the Web age began (when dinosaurs roamed the Earth...). That particular agency simply used those references to contact my clients and underbid me. I know this because it didn't work in two cases, both of which immediately informed me about it, but it did work in one case, and that hurt for a while. Lesson learned.
| | | | 784512 (X)
Germany
Local time: 12:27
German to English
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| Privacy vs. Contactability (@Cetacea - what utter tulips!) | Jan 26, 2011 |
Cetacea wrote: I agree that a block feature could come in handy, but for the time being, in your ProZ profile, you do have the option of only providing a CV upon request, and I doubt that you would decide to send it to a--ahem--daffodil.
The trouble is, it is also on my website, and I still want my CV accessible to other potential clients via my profile, even colleagues if they just feel like being nosy. I certainly don't want to remove my website, either... I market myself for my IT skills, too, and my website shows them off.
He could only bad-mouth you to potential clients, and how is he going to find out about those? As for your existing clients, I'm sure your track record speaks for itself, so don't worry too much about it. It would only give him the importance he doesn't have.
Good point. *breathes slowly*
Having said that, I'm often surprised about how freely people publish detailed client lists in their profiles. Giving out references can backfire on you, as I found out the hard way when I started in this business way back before the Web age began (when dinosaurs roamed the Earth...). That particular agency simply used those references to contact my clients and underbid me. I know this because it didn't work in two cases, both of which immediately informed me about it, but it did work in one case, and that hurt for a while. Lesson learned.
That's awful! What total, utter, (tulips)! As you say, lesson learned... Perhaps you should do the same back to them and overbid them - dishonest business practices tend not to be confined to a single area, as I expect many of their clients have now learned, and would possibly now consider paying more to get a decent, honest, quality translator.
...Or am I being too optimistic?
[Edited at 2011-01-26 17:42 GMT]
| | | | IPtranslate (X)
Brazil
English to Dutch
+ ...
Don't do to others what you don't want others to do to you.
or some kind of contraposition ( I fully agree that it isn't logically correct):
If others do something to you what you don't want them to do, based on a "fair reasoning", you shouldn't refrain from doing it back to them, should the occasion arise.
As to answering questions: I know by now when I can answer questions and who will appreciate my best possible input....sometimes I run into another surp... See more Don't do to others what you don't want others to do to you.
or some kind of contraposition ( I fully agree that it isn't logically correct):
If others do something to you what you don't want them to do, based on a "fair reasoning", you shouldn't refrain from doing it back to them, should the occasion arise.
As to answering questions: I know by now when I can answer questions and who will appreciate my best possible input....sometimes I run into another surprise, but that is another lesson and I keep adjusting my standards when it comes to judging and evaluating people.....
[Edited at 2011-01-26 21:31 GMT]
[Edited at 2011-01-26 21:32 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Daria Bontch-Osmolovskaia (X)
Australia
Local time: 20:27
English
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| That's very sad | Jan 27, 2011 |
Rolf Kern wrote:
Translation is a harsh business. There is no room for kindness.
It's very sad that you think this, Rolf. I work with a number of colleagues in my language combo, I suppose they are technically my competitors, however there is always kindness between us. Or, at the very least, civility and politeness.
Curiously, I seem to get quite a bit of work outsourced to me from these colleagues, when they are overloaded, and I reciprocate when I can. I wonder if this all connected
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Mari Noller
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:27
English to Norwegian
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| Personally I've given up | Jan 27, 2011 |
the Kudoz nightmare completely. Yes, people bully and behave like children and to be honest my time is too valuable to waste on that. So I would rather spend my time looking through glossaries or on google to find my answer. I will only use Kudoz as an absolute last resort. At best it's a good database to search in.
Btw, in my experience the moderators can be just as bad bullies as the translators, and that is the biggest problem for me. The rules of etiquette does not seem t... See more the Kudoz nightmare completely. Yes, people bully and behave like children and to be honest my time is too valuable to waste on that. So I would rather spend my time looking through glossaries or on google to find my answer. I will only use Kudoz as an absolute last resort. At best it's a good database to search in.
Btw, in my experience the moderators can be just as bad bullies as the translators, and that is the biggest problem for me. The rules of etiquette does not seem to apply to everyone.
Therefore I have opted out of several "features" of the Proz website as I have bad experience with their "fair" treatment of users. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | There is a block feature | Jan 27, 2011 |
as far as I know as an ex-moderator.
Rose Newell wrote:
Why isn't there a block feature? Some people get stalkers....
| | | | Erik Freitag
Germany
Local time: 12:27
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
| Kudoz is meant to be a last resort | Jan 27, 2011 |
Mari Noller wrote:
the Kudoz nightmare completely. Yes, people bully and behave like children and to be honest my time is too valuable to waste on that. So I would rather spend my time looking through glossaries or on google to find my answer. I will only use Kudoz as an absolute last resort. At best it's a good database to search in.
As a side remark: KudoZ is meant to be a last resort anyway.
| | | | | rude people on KudoZ | Jan 27, 2011 |
If you answer a question, there is a good chance you will earn some KudoZ points which will increase your visibility in the Proz directories and online.
But you are not expected to answer any questions you don't want to.
Some people do not provide enough context when asking for help, but I don't think they need to be treated like 2 year old children when being told off for not providing enough context. There is no need to sneer. Because you (KudoZ answerer) are not obliged to answer... See more If you answer a question, there is a good chance you will earn some KudoZ points which will increase your visibility in the Proz directories and online.
But you are not expected to answer any questions you don't want to.
Some people do not provide enough context when asking for help, but I don't think they need to be treated like 2 year old children when being told off for not providing enough context. There is no need to sneer. Because you (KudoZ answerer) are not obliged to answer the question. Comments like:
e.g.
"I've given up on asking for extra context"
"Well if you had told us all you knew at the start you would have saved us a lot of time"
I think some people think that they are at liberty to express themselves however they want because they are hiding behind a computer screen.
Another point is: some people are hopelessly out of their depth when translating a certain document or subject matter. But how do you expect people to progress and discover their boundaries and specialise in a subject matter if they are not allowed to be translating documents that they are not qualified for and they are not allowed to ask questions because they shouldn't be translating that document?
There are some translators who (like me) specialised in languages and linguistics at University and not engineering or environmental science or architecture. These people need to specialise somehow and often they specialise in the field they gain the most experience in initially, to a point where they DO build up the knowledge to translate those sorts of documents.
I agree that there is no need to sneer on KudoZ answers - if you don't like the question then filter it out or don't answer it. But there is no need to be rude. ▲ Collapse
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Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 12:27
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
| Tutors and schools exist for a reason. | Jan 27, 2011 |
Frances Leggett wrote:
But how do you expect people to progress and discover their boundaries and specialise in a subject matter if they are not allowed to be translating documents that they are not qualified for and they are not allowed to ask questions because they shouldn't be translating that document?
I think they should specialize with a tutor in an appropriate environment, and not by looking for answers from random KudoZ passers-by.
I don't deny that some additional knowledge can be gathered on KudoZ as well, but to "specialize" is just a word too strong.
[Edited at 2011-01-27 16:24 GMT]
| | | | | Schools only teach you so much... | Jan 27, 2011 |
Lingua 5B wrote: Frances Leggett wrote:
But how do you expect people to progress and discover their boundaries and specialise in a subject matter if they are not allowed to be translating documents that they are not qualified for and they are not allowed to ask questions because they shouldn't be translating that document?
I think they should specialize with a tutor in an appropriate environment, and not by looking for answers from random KudoZ passers-by. I don't deny that some additional knowledge can be gathered on KudoZ as well, but to "specialize" is just a word too strong. [Edited at 2011-01-27 16:24 GMT]
You can do as many specialisation courses as you like, but the only real way you are going to increase your capability in any given field is through practice and experience. If translators are not allowed to translate in something they are not 100% specialised in, then how do they get that practice? Because paying for a course and a tutor to give you lessons can only teach you so much. Experience is built up over years, not just after one or two courses.
I'm not saying that translators use KudoZ to specialise in a subject matter, but if it is not a specialisation of theirs at that moment, they are probably posting questions as a reassurance of what they have been able to interpret in that term - not everybody using KudoZ wants a bunch of professionals to do their translation for them! I think there is sometimes an assumption that people who post on KudoZ have not bothered to do some research on the term themselves. And this is not true for the majority. I certainly only post terms that I need extra reassurance for, except the odd term I am really stuck on. In any case, the best answerer will also get points for that so it's hardly an unrewarded system.
But this is slightly off the point of the forum subject - my point is that even if unspecialised people are doing specialised translations and posting questions on KudoZ, the majority are not trying to abuse the KudoZ system and do not deserve to be sneered at by more experienced translators. If translators don't want to answer the question, then just don't answer it.
| | | | inkweaver
Germany
Local time: 12:27
French to German
+ ...
| With MC-Trans and Frances | Jan 28, 2011 |
@MC-Trans: My thoughts exactly - couldn't have said it any better.
I also agree with Frances. You need to be able to grow and develop somehow which may involve accepting a text in a subject matter you are not entirely familiar with. You may also find that you have accepted a 50-page document which seemed to be completely within your areas of specialisation, only to discover a few paragraphs in between dealing with something you haven't done before.
I don't think that a... See more @MC-Trans: My thoughts exactly - couldn't have said it any better.
I also agree with Frances. You need to be able to grow and develop somehow which may involve accepting a text in a subject matter you are not entirely familiar with. You may also find that you have accepted a 50-page document which seemed to be completely within your areas of specialisation, only to discover a few paragraphs in between dealing with something you haven't done before.
I don't think that anyone will read every single word of a long document before accepting the job if it appears to be in their area of specialisation. You give it a quick scan and that's all. So what do you do when you encounter a problem? Do some research yourself, of course, but what if you are just not sure? You might be tempted to ask a KudoZ question... And yes, people answering it are rewarded when they get points, aren't they? Besides, we can all benefit from these questions and answers...
Snide remarks are absolutely uncalled-for, IMHO. Either answer the question or move on and ignore it. But apparently some people need it for their ego to sneer at others and it is all so much easier in the virtual and somewhat impersonal environment of the web. But perhaps we should pity them... ▲ Collapse
| | | | Rachel Fell
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:27
French to English
+ ...
Frances Leggett wrote:
But you are not expected to answer any questions you don't want to.
Some people do not provide enough context when asking for help, but I don't think they need to be treated like 2 year old children when being told off for not providing enough context. There is no need to sneer. Because you (KudoZ answerer) are not obliged to answer the question. Comments like:
e.g.
"I've given up on asking for extra context"
"Well if you had told us all you knew at the start you would have saved us a lot of time"
I think some people think that they are at liberty to express themselves however they want because they are hiding behind a computer screen.
Another point is: some people are hopelessly out of their depth when translating a certain document or subject matter. But how do you expect people to progress and discover their boundaries and specialise in a subject matter if they are not allowed to be translating documents that they are not qualified for and they are not allowed to ask questions because they shouldn't be translating that document?
There are some translators who (like me) specialised in languages and linguistics at University and not engineering or environmental science or architecture. These people need to specialise somehow and often they specialise in the field they gain the most experience in initially, to a point where they DO build up the knowledge to translate those sorts of documents.
I agree that there is no need to sneer on KudoZ answers - if you don't like the question then filter it out or don't answer it. But there is no need to be rude.
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