| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Why put a human face on a robot? Thread poster: Reea-Silvia Podeanu
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I revisit this subject I have approached some time ago.
I am very confused. We are being replaced by robots (AI) and we are happy to deliver our jobs to them. I have read some of the threads with this theme, and it looks (to me) like most people blissfully ignore the threat the AI represents to us. On so many levels.
I feel like I am one of the few seriously worried about the MT, AI and the sort. I said some time ago that AI is here to conquer, and it looks like most o... See more I revisit this subject I have approached some time ago.
I am very confused. We are being replaced by robots (AI) and we are happy to deliver our jobs to them. I have read some of the threads with this theme, and it looks (to me) like most people blissfully ignore the threat the AI represents to us. On so many levels.
I feel like I am one of the few seriously worried about the MT, AI and the sort. I said some time ago that AI is here to conquer, and it looks like most of us are happy to hand it our lives and jobs choosing... innocently unaware to use it.
I do not know if some of you remember the times when many workers lost their jobs over robots. And this MTPE thing started to horrify me because the process looks the same.
By accepting MTPE jobs, we are (helping them to) actually put(ting) a human face on a robot (btw how horrible and frightening Sofia looks), we are paid less and less, and although the work may seem lighter and simpler, it remains proofreading, copy editing or whatever, and „helps” us forget how vibrant and alive we feel when doing what we love most: translate.
I became a translator because I love to transpose in my language the words of people all over the world, so various each and every time. I love the whole (human) process of thinking, rethinking, and choosing... and researching... and pondering (sometimes for days) the nuances and subtle messages of the original text. Not so much in the case of tech texts etc. but still... it is fun to research new words and learn something new everyday. In the end, there are ways to be charming even when translating tech texts... like marketing materials. What a challenge to make a tractor be so appealing to new clients!
But lately I do not get to use my words properly... or at all... I am told more and more that the client used MT, and they just want a human proofreading to make it sound professional. They just offer an hourly rate that goes to less than half of normal proofreading rate.
In the end, why MTPE should be paid less than proofreading a human translation? A human traslation normally does not require too much work and it still is paid (usually) half the translation rate. MTPE requires far more work and is paid less.
I do enjoy translating from scratch... Using my own words... This is how human literature so rich and wonderful appeared, even in the more... regulated and not so... flamboyant (:) ) fields. But now, we are helping it (AI) to standardize everything... our words, our processes, our feelings... and in the end our lives and beings.
I am very happy to be a human being with all sorts of states, and thoughts... and that colorfull pallete of feelings...
So putting a human face on a robot... who are they(we) trying to fool? And why?
I feel these are (regrettably) just rhetorical questions.
[Edited at 2022-02-22 18:34 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Mihai Badea (X) 
Luxembourg
Local time: 12:10
English to Romanian
+ ...
| Confusing topic title | Feb 22, 2022 |
As there are real (mechanical) robots which have human-like faces, and this is a subject in itself. Some robots are really great, they do amazing things. But do they really need to have a human face? A (rather) ethical question ...
As to MT, I would note a suggestion by Mr Jaap van der Meer - visit “Translation Economics in the 2020s... See more As there are real (mechanical) robots which have human-like faces, and this is a subject in itself. Some robots are really great, they do amazing things. But do they really need to have a human face? A (rather) ethical question ...
As to MT, I would note a suggestion by Mr Jaap van der Meer - visit “Translation Economics in the 2020s” at
http://www.ttt.org/translation-economics-and-rebuttal/ - that translation contributors are paid every time an MT engine is trained. This is interesting, and a way to acknowledge translators' work.
Not far away from the pop artists model. They get a small amount of money every time a song is played. Of course, it adds up. Some amazing artists get extraordinary amounts of money. Every year. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | I do not get any money when an AI is trained | Feb 22, 2022 |
I(we) do not make the money a pop artist makes from fractions. I am paid only once. And poorly.
Also, we could live very well without the „amazing things” a robot can make.
Are we here to „entertain” the robots, and develop a robotic civilisation, or help our human fellows live a decent fulfilled life, and develop beautifully inside and out, learning together to be more instead of having more? Fo... See more I(we) do not make the money a pop artist makes from fractions. I am paid only once. And poorly.
Also, we could live very well without the „amazing things” a robot can make.
Are we here to „entertain” the robots, and develop a robotic civilisation, or help our human fellows live a decent fulfilled life, and develop beautifully inside and out, learning together to be more instead of having more? For myself, the answer is very clear. I am not sure about other people.
And when I said that we put a human face on a robot... this is exactly what do when performing MTPE jobs. We give the cold unnatural robotic language a warm natural appearance of human translation.
[Edited at 2022-02-22 19:20 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Stepan Konev
Russian Federation
Local time: 13:10
English to Russian
| Thousands years now | Feb 22, 2022 |
Reea-Silvia Podeanu wrote:
I do not know if some of you remember the times when many workers lost their jobs over robots. It is known as "technological progress" and it goes straight since the dawn of humanity.
A human traslation normally does not require too much work and it still is paid (usually) half the translation rate. This one is not clear. Why "a human translation normally does not require too much work"?
In the end, why MTPE should be paid less than proofreading a human translation? No, it shouldn't. It's up to you whether you accept that or not. I simply don't accept MTPE jobs at a rate lower than that of translation (not to mention proofreading).
[Edited at 2022-02-22 21:27 GMT]
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| Apart from the artistic point of view ... | Feb 22, 2022 |
Reea-Silvia Podeanu wrote:
Are we here to „entertain” the robots We give the cold unnatural robotic language a warm natural appearance of human translation.
... you focus so much on, our (your) remaining task in MTPE still will be to be the person to legally blame for at the end of the chain, because the so-called AI (algorithms) never will become that perfect that a correct translation can be guaranteed by those, who make use of AI without mastering the two languages. It always needs a translator, who truly understands the source and who has to be fully responsible for the target.
[Bearbeitet am 2022-02-22 21:07 GMT]
| | | | Mr. Satan (X)
English to Indonesian
It's not only translators who are being replaced by robots, really. Military personnel are being replaced by drones, drivers are being replaced by self-driving cars. The same can be said about cashiers, office clerks, accountants, and even cooks. You made it sound like it's only the translators who are being marginalized by the invention of AI. But in reality, translation is only one example of the industries which are (as the executive boards would claim it) being made more efficient by robotic... See more It's not only translators who are being replaced by robots, really. Military personnel are being replaced by drones, drivers are being replaced by self-driving cars. The same can be said about cashiers, office clerks, accountants, and even cooks. You made it sound like it's only the translators who are being marginalized by the invention of AI. But in reality, translation is only one example of the industries which are (as the executive boards would claim it) being made more efficient by robotics. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Yes, you are right... | Feb 23, 2022 |
Although I do not care too much about drones replacing soldiers. Who needs war?
Yes, you are absolutely right... I mentioned only us now because here on ProZ it is about us. But you are right.
Everybpody these days venerates efficiency... I call them „efficiency adorers”... More efficient... what a joke.
| | | | | I somehow disagree... :) | Feb 23, 2022 |
[quote]It is known as "technological progress" and it goes straight since the dawn of humanity.
Yeah, right. And we simply agree with everything and accept it because it is just ... „normal”? WEll, it is to be expected to be accepted by men... Men usually donțt think too much in the future (it is a fact) they live in the present which is absolutely great but not too much in such cases as this one.
„Why "a human translation normally does not require too much work"?”
Because it does not... Unless the translator is a begginer or was lazy and used MT, a human translation does not require too much proofreading. I don't have to correct the grammar (much) or the subjective style choices we make... MT requires a lot of work. In Romanian MT makes no sense in longer phrases.
„No, it shouldn't. It's up to you whether you accept that or not. I simply don't accept MTPE jobs at a rate lower than that of translation (not to mention proofreading).”
It is great if you can do that... But after two years of plandemic, clients go somewhere else if you refuse their rates. I refused myself so far but i wonder for how long i can do that. Can we afford to really continue to reject those jobs?
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Mihai Badea (X)
Luxembourg
Local time: 12:10
English to Romanian
+ ...
| You do not get any money when an AI is trained | Feb 23, 2022 |
Reea-Silvia Podeanu wrote: I(we) do not make the money a pop artist makes from fractions. I am paid only once. And poorly. Also, we could live very well without the „amazing things” a robot can make. Are we here to „entertain” the robots, and develop a robotic civilisation, or help our human fellows live a decent fulfilled life, and develop beautifully inside and out, learning together to be more instead of having more? For myself, the answer is very clear. I am not sure about other people. And when I said that we put a human face on a robot... this is exactly what do when performing MTPE jobs. We give the cold unnatural robotic language a warm natural appearance of human translation. [Edited at 2022-02-22 19:20 GMT]
Nobody does. For the time being, it is just a proposal. And a rather impractical one.
| | | | Mr. Satan (X)
English to Indonesian
Reea-Silvia Podeanu wrote:
Although I do not care too much about drones replacing soldiers. Who needs war?
Weapon manufacturers do.
Everybpody these days venerates efficiency... I call them „efficiency adorers”... More efficient... what a joke.
It's really a matter of who could print them more money in a shorter period of time. If human translators could beat MTs in this regard, companies will get back to us. Not that I condone the practice of industrialized translation, but that's just how it is.
You could, in theory, target fields that require creative writing, so there's a possibility to offer something different than an MT would be able to produce. But I have encountered some outsourcers who had the audacity to provide Indonesian subtitle templates which were blatantly the results of MT output. They disguised them as normal proofreading/editing jobs. If anyone ever wondered why I dropped all proofreading and editing jobs along with MTPE off my menu, this is why.
So I'm not holding too much hope for it.
EDIT:
I meant to say Indonesian subtitle templates, not English subtitle templates. My B.
[Edited at 2022-02-23 08:39 GMT]
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:10
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| refuse these jobs | Feb 23, 2022 |
Reea-Silvia Podeanu wrote:
.... I am told more and more that the client used MT, and they just want a human proofreading to make it sound professional. They just offer an hourly rate that goes to less than half of normal proofreading rate.
You shouldn't be accepting these jobs because clearly, they are making you unhappy.
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Tom in London wrote: Reea-Silvia Podeanu wrote:
.... I am told more and more that the client used MT, and they just want a human proofreading to make it sound professional. They just offer an hourly rate that goes to less than half of normal proofreading rate. You shouldn't be accepting these jobs because clearly, they are making you unhappy.
I am not but this is my problem. I really need work. Serious work not this stupid MTPE. I have started looking for new clients... but guess what... Everybody asks for your MTPE rate. Maybe other pairs are happier and more requested... but mine... apparently not so much.
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[quote]It's really a matter of who could print them more money in a shorter period of time. If human translators could beat MTs in this regard, companies will get back to us. Not that I condone the practice of industrialized translation, but that's just how it is.
You could, in theory, target fields that require creative writing, so there's a possibility to offer something different than an MT would be able to produce. But I have encountered some outsourcers who had the audacity to provide Indonesian subtitle templates which were blatantly the results of MT output. They disguised them as normal proofreading/editing jobs. If anyone ever wondered why I dropped all proofreading and editing jobs along with MTPE off my menu, this is why.
So I'm not holding too much hope for it.
EDIT:
I meant to say Indonesian subtitle template, not English subtitle template. My B[quote]
I translate between 900 to 1500 words per hour. I am excellent and fast... Way faster than doing MTPE. MTPE requires from me three times more time than I need to translate from scratch.
[quote]Not that I condone the practice of industrialized translation, but that's just how it is.[quote]
This is my problem and this is why I started this topic... WE can do something right now. Until it is not too late. Let's not just accept the so-called „tech advancement” that pushes us aside. Let's not just say „this is how it is”... Let's fight it.
Let's boicot MTPE!
There, I said it. Let's boicot MTPE. Together we really can do it. If nobody would accept such jobs... they would really have to rethink this!
[Edited at 2022-02-23 08:49 GMT]
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 12:10
French to English
Reea-Silvia Podeanu wrote:
Let's boicot MTPE!
[Edited at 2022-02-23 08:49 GMT]
That's what I've been doing up to now. (Mainly because PEMT gives me a headache)
But there'll always be someone who's poor enough and willing to agree to do it.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:10
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Kay Denney wrote: Reea-Silvia Podeanu wrote:
Let's boicot MTPE!
[Edited at 2022-02-23 08:49 GMT] That's what I've been doing up to now. (Mainly because PEMT gives me a headache) But there'll always be someone who's poor enough and willing to agree to do it.
I always refuse MTPE jobs. I'd rather not work than do them.
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