| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8] > | Apple 中文官网的一些翻译 Thread poster: Yan Yuliang
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ysun 
United States
Local time: 18:57
English to Chinese
+ ...
Yan Yuliang wrote:
明明自己不仔细看我发的帖子，反而说我不仔细看你的帖子。
1. 我一开始说的就是简体中文网页，你没仔细看。
2. 此贴的目的，是说苹果对中文简体网站太不仔细，你抓住“流动网络”不放。
3. 既然你我并非技术专家，请拿出你的论证来。如果除了维基百科，中国华为、中兴、大唐，甚至阿
朗、诺西的简体中文手册中，将“流动网络”纳入术语的。
我论证的基础是：google搜索证明，此词语基本是繁体中文惯用的（香港、台湾各电信相关网站）。简体中文里，我只搜到华为的网站上出现过一次（http://www.baidu.com/link?url=tXjcNPxuFmJTDA8HdbbhcgdXeF0sOWO16BXBicssgzbru_KBb9vPPLIaNXnjQLHpJMB_L6Js2bejRA1IC_GGqdfBXGfcK-26iw6zNfKTbVa）这仅有的一次，还是出现在了香港电信盈科的稿件中。
单凭维基百科的单一论据，无法证明此术语的实际使用。
合格的telecom翻译，要知道术语两岸三地的不同译法？我之前工作中，telecom术语表从A到Z数万条，这个我的确做不到。我连简体中文的很多术语都要查证。
| | | | jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 19:57
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| A null hypothesis | Jan 20, 2014 |
Yan Yuliang wrote:
此外，你们可以看看这里经常发言的，难道只有旅居美国或海外的华人对翻译感兴趣？这里我几乎见不到活跃参与的mainland China译员，即便偶有发言，也很少有坚持下来的。究竟原因何在？如果每个人在这里说几句话就会被挑错，无论你们的本意是好是坏，你们都破坏了发帖人的初衷，就是俗称的“歪楼”。
"见不到活跃参与的mainland China译员"是事实,但如果你认为他们没有坚持發言是“每个人在这里说几句话就会被挑错，无论你们的本意是好是坏，你们都破坏了发帖人的初衷”，这只是一个NULL hypothesis。
A null hypothesis will remain null until proven otherwise.
| | | | Jinhang Wang
China
Local time: 07:57
English to Chinese
+ ...
只能一笑而已。
[Edited at 2014-01-20 07:10 GMT]
| | | | ysun
United States
Local time: 18:57
English to Chinese
+ ...
简体、繁体毕竟都是中文，不是两种截然不同的语言。在某些科技领域，简繁体之间的差异会大一些，但毕竟大多数术语的中文表达还是相同的。假如每个术语的表达都不同，那么中国大陆的科技人员看台湾学者写的论文，岂不就得找一名简繁体汉语翻译？对于某些使用频繁的术语，掌握简繁体之间的差异并非是件难事。
当然，如果只是单打一，只从英文翻入简体或繁体中文，那就不必操心简繁体之间的差异。
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Rita Pang
Canada
Local time: 19:57
Member (2011)
Chinese to English
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Moderator of this forum | Truth of the matter is... | Jan 22, 2014 |
Fargoer wrote: jyuan_us wrote:
我翻译的东西，不是让几个无聊的学者去玩味的。 您的职业操守值得敬佩。但别的译者也有自己的风格。还是不要轻易地下道德判断为好。 PK大叔提出一个他认为很棒的翻译实例，大家品头论足、琢磨玩味，也都是以专业的态度进行探讨。批判为“无聊的学者”，似乎有失厚道。
I think instead of speaking as a "学者", most of us here speak as a "COLLEAGUE" within the industry. Maybe not everyone agrees or believes so. I am not pointing fingers at anyone, but to call someone else 无聊的学者 (whoever it may be, or even just a generalized term) is rather, well, unnecessary.
With all due respect to everyone, must arguments always ensue every time a new topic comes up on the forum? I mean, the topics are interesting. It's totally okay to go off-topic. It's totally okay to get heated up in conversations- that's the beauty of discussions. But there are too many re-quoting, re-re-quoting lately, and that might deter some members in actively participating in discussions.
Thanks to everyone who posted links, I particularly enjoy reading up the 神翻译 in China.
Peace out
| | | | jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 19:57
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
Fargoer wrote: jyuan_us wrote: Fargoer wrote: jyuan_us wrote: Yan Yuliang wrote: 关于“分量”的解释，汉语词典的解释是：
分量 fènliàng
(1) [weight]∶比喻价值、作用、对判断有影响的力量
他们的意见总是很有分量
(2) [measure]∶重量；达到标准的数量
这桶牛奶的分量是否足
这里取第一个解释，我觉得是没有问题的。“别有分量”，是指iPad Air虽然轻，但在功能、价值上并不输于前一代产品。 [Edited at 2014-01-19 02:37 GMT] [Edited at 2014-01-19 02:37 GMT] 本来很醒目、很直观的一句英文，却要以可能引起学术争议的语句翻译，这是折磨大众的行为，是欠缺道德考虑的。 你上面列举的词典解释，在翻译圈内站得住脚；但从翻译的目的这一角度看，值得商榷。 Do you expect the audience to have to look 分量 up in the dictionary? and do you want to see it happen that the audience has to decide which dictionary definition is the one the translator has intended? 简单的一个概念，受众被逼迫着查字典，选词意，这样的翻译，其行为是不道德的。 这里讨论的问题，严格说不是翻译，而是 localization。字面是否符合原文，并不是最要紧的。要紧的是原文的“卖点”。“power of lightness” 其实就是一种矛盾，多少已经有些不合理。有点“大音希声”的味道。可能有让读者“神会”的意图。“轻，别有分量”的处理，是有点儿玩弄模糊。“power”译为“分量”，而不简单地译为“力量”、“强大”等，译者似乎是用了些心思的。利用模糊和委婉的措辞，留下些许余味，也不失为一种广告策略。这也不过是让广告词在读者脑袋里稍微多停留一会儿而已。提到道德的高度，有些太沉重了。别有分量，该不是这种道德分量吧。:D 我翻译的东西，不是让几个无聊的学者去玩味的。 您的职业操守值得敬佩。但别的译者也有自己的风格。还是不要轻易地下道德判断为好。 PK大叔提出一个他认为很棒的翻译实例，大家品头论足、琢磨玩味，也都是以专业的态度进行探讨。批判为“无聊的学者”，似乎有失厚道。
能夠讓專門搞語言的人關子屋子里(在完全不考慮APPLE的潛在用戶的接受能力)無休止地(可能永遠無結論地)討論的譯文，本身就是神翻譯。
我們在做面對海外做的文件時，首先不把自己當成翻譯，而是當作潛在客戶之一，總是先問問自己，如果我沒有看到英文，這句話什麼意思？
如果一個句子不是很多消費者能立即能懂，或稍微思考就能悟出意思，這個句子就是在折磨消費者。而翻譯們卻為了某些字眼用的妙与不妙侃侃而談或者欣然自得，我不知道該說什麼。
[Edited at 2014-01-22 01:21 GMT]
[Edited at 2014-01-22 01:22 GMT]
| | | | jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 19:57
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| 我沒有指認任何人為學者， | Jan 22, 2014 |
Rita Pang wrote: Fargoer wrote: jyuan_us wrote:
我翻译的东西，不是让几个无聊的学者去玩味的。 您的职业操守值得敬佩。但别的译者也有自己的风格。还是不要轻易地下道德判断为好。 PK大叔提出一个他认为很棒的翻译实例，大家品头论足、琢磨玩味，也都是以专业的态度进行探讨。批判为“无聊的学者”，似乎有失厚道。 I think instead of speaking as a "学者", most of us here speak as a "COLLEAGUE" within the industry. Maybe not everyone agrees or believes so. I am not pointing fingers at anyone, but to call someone else 无聊的学者 (whoever it may be, or even just a generalized term) is rather, well, unnecessary. With all due respect to everyone, must arguments always ensue every time a new topic comes up on the forum? I mean, the topics are interesting. It's totally okay to go off-topic. It's totally okay to get heated up in conversations- that's the beauty of discussions. But there are too many re-quoting, re-re-quoting lately, and that might deter some members in actively participating in discussions. Thanks to everyone who posted links, I particularly enjoy reading up the 神翻译 in China. Peace out
我想到的是為了一個詞(比如“其他VS其它，比如DRAGON VS LOONG”)能寫成學術文章的那些人；如果誰感到不快，說明是他自己把自己當學者了。
[Edited at 2014-01-22 01:16 GMT]
| | | | Yan Yuliang
Local time: 07:57
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
轻，别有份量。
我觉得很不错。能让我一下子记住，而且不断回味。我也不会把分量理解为重量。
查字典是为了证明我的语言理解是否有偏差，并非研究。
我百度、google查证了一下，除了个别人指出“分量”和“份量”的用法以外，“轻出份量”（貌似这个是最早的翻译版本？没有查证）这个说法被很多数码电脑网站和媒体所采用。
... See more 轻，别有份量。
我觉得很不错。能让我一下子记住，而且不断回味。我也不会把分量理解为重量。
查字典是为了证明我的语言理解是否有偏差，并非研究。
我百度、google查证了一下，除了个别人指出“分量”和“份量”的用法以外，“轻出份量”（貌似这个是最早的翻译版本？没有查证）这个说法被很多数码电脑网站和媒体所采用。
深圳华强北卖电脑的，肯定不是学者什么的。
http://www.188shop.com/item.htm?id=35862300693
再说说开头的“轻出份量”，iPad Air在体积上是绝对地轻量级，但在内在核心方面绝对是重量级。iPadAir搭载苹果最新的64位A7双核处理器，并配备M7协处理器，A7+M7是目前苹果iOS设备的最强组合，iPhone 5s也使用了A7处理器，不同的是iPhone 5s上的A7主频为1.3GHz，而iPad Air上的A7主频为1.4GHz，二者相同的是都采用了1GB内存。
“轻出份量”看似矛盾，但官方用它来描述iPad Air很合适。减少电池容量同时维持续航达到瘦身目的，此乃轻，而真正实现这一成果的过程很有含金量，是实实在在很有份量的实力体现。
[Edited at 2014-01-22 01:46 GMT]
[Edited at 2014-01-22 14:47 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 19:57
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
我想說得是，道德不是什麼高地，是思維和行為方式的自然反應。
做出來不考慮受眾接受能力的譯文，就是少了替別人考慮這一根弦。不知道這樣說話這算不算站在什麼高地。
[Edited at 2014-01-22 01:17 GMT]
| | | | jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 19:57
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
拗口，繞來繞去不明就裡的廣告語，我還沒有見到過一個成功的。那種創意者自己舒服了，完全沒與考慮整個社會的AVERAGE PEOPLE是否能夠理解他的意圖的用語，早晚會被市場拋棄。
真正好的用詞，是燕舞收錄機、兩片、吃嘛嘛香那種，這些通常都是無法玩味的。
[Edited at 2014-01-22 01:18 GMT]
[Edited at 2014-01-22 04:45 GMT]
| | | | Fargoer
Canada
Local time: 17:57
English to Chinese
jyuan_us wrote:
能夠讓專門搞語言的人關子屋子里(在完全不考慮APPLY的潛在用戶的接受能力)無休止地(可能永遠五結論地)討論的譯文，本身就是神翻譯。
“无休止”不可能。侃累就止了。:D “无结论”是一定的。仁者见仁，智者见智。哪里能统一。说是“神翻译”够客气，译者应该知足。:)
我們在做面對海外做的文件時，首先不把自己當成翻譯，而是當作潛在客戶之一，總是先問問自己，如果我沒有看到英文，這句話什麼意思？
您这种翻译态度非常专业。心里想着受众是必须的。
如果不是很多消費者能立即能懂，或稍微思考就能悟出意思，這個句子就是在折磨消費者。而翻譯們卻為了某些字眼用的妙与不妙侃侃而談。不知道該說什麼。
要让读者懂，是起码的。如果读者想一想还是不懂，那这种翻译就叫失败。至于我们讨论的这段文字读者能不能懂，或者能不能达到广告设计者想要的效果，是可以讨论的。
讨论不一定有结果。没有结果也有益。您的意见我不是每条都同意，但我也又受益。您强调了受众的感受的重要性，而这一点常常被忘记。
| | | | jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 19:57
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
Fargoer wrote:
至于我们讨论的这段文字读者能不能懂，或者能不能达到广告设计者想要的效果，是可以讨论的。
一、這句話的受眾是看不到英文的；
二、這句中文到底想說什麼，到目前為止，在PROZ這個小圈子里已經有了幾種解讀；
三、“我們討論的這段文字讀者能不能懂，或者能不能達到廣告設計者想要的效果，是可以討論的”， 但是，這是討論不出結果的。要真想瞭解受眾的反應，應在合適的人群樣本中進行隨機化調研，否則誰也拿不出具有說服力的證據。找一幫翻譯或者大學教授問這句話有沒有問題，不會有人說有問題。以字論字，沒有問題；問題是沒有，可是它能準確地、無可爭辯地能傳達出蘋果的原意嗎？
四、拿了客戶的錢，譯成這種話，等於沒有達到客戶的目的，或者說等於沒翻譯。
五、大家都是人，頭腦都有局限性，沒有想到更好的暫時就這樣翻譯，倒也沒什麼大不了的。
六、可是，把這種話當作好譯文還心情為止一振、眼睛為之發亮，就值得當個問題來提出了。
[Edited at 2014-01-22 04:43 GMT]
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Fargoer
Canada
Local time: 17:57
English to Chinese
jyuan_us wrote:
五、大家都是人，頭腦都有局限性，沒有想到更好的暫時就這樣翻譯，倒也沒什麼大不了的。
六、可是，把這種話當作好譯文還心情為止一振、眼睛為之發亮，就值得當個問題來提出了。
[Edited at 2014-01-22 04:43 GMT]
译文不算好，但问题不大。
您生气是因为我们对它夸赞过分了。
明白了。今后夸人要当心！;D
| | | | wherestip
United States
Local time: 18:57
Chinese to English
+ ...
It depends on what the original English was. If it was "lightweight", then it is wrong. If it was "powerful", then it is okay, or maybe even great, depending on the viewer's level of appreciation - as they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If the original text was "lightweight but powerful", then it becomes debatable. Isn't "别有分量" by itself leaving out the weight aspect from the original, or perhaps playing with words to only hint at the weight aspect but never clearly stat... See more It depends on what the original English was. If it was "lightweight", then it is wrong. If it was "powerful", then it is okay, or maybe even great, depending on the viewer's level of appreciation - as they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If the original text was "lightweight but powerful", then it becomes debatable. Isn't "别有分量" by itself leaving out the weight aspect from the original, or perhaps playing with words to only hint at the weight aspect but never clearly state the fact that the product is lighter in weight than the previous version product, therefore creating unnecessary ambiguity that the original text didn't have?
Like I said in my title, it's just my 2 cents. I didn't really closely follow this particular discussion of 别有分量.
As for jyuan's casual mention of 道德, IMO, a better term might have been (负)责任, as in one's "moral obligation" in English. But in any case, I think he's only referring to the phenomenon in general anyway - that it's not the right thing to do to add a level of difficulty for the reader when it was never there to begin with.
On a slightly different topic ...
Speaking of a translator's obligations, in my opinion, advertising has its boundaries and moral obligations too. You can't just completely ignore the original and say whatever you want, as long as it sounds impressive and "catches eyeballs". It becomes even more so when it comes to a technology product's features or technical specifications. IMO, one has the obligation to stick to the technical facts and the original advertiser's intent and claims.
[Edited at 2014-01-23 01:05 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | wherestip
United States
Local time: 18:57
Chinese to English
+ ...
http://www.proz.com/post/2235409#2235409
QHE wrote: J.H. Wang wrote:
如果是这样的话，我倾向于 industry 译成“工业”，而不是“行业”。至于 competence，我觉得翻译成 “实力”也可以。 J。H。， 我有同样感觉。 而且 industry competence 并不仅仅是指技术， 更不是成就，是necessary skills, knowledge, experience; as well as a competency assurance system 的总合. 所以我也认为译成“实力”应该更贴切。
IMO, too much embellishment could potentially lead to a violation of "truth in advertising" and potentially create a PR disaster.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_advertising False advertising or deceptive advertising is the use of false or misleading statements in advertising. As advertising has the potential to persuade people into commercial transactions that they might otherwise avoid, many governments around the world use regulations to control false, deceptive or misleading advertising. "Truth" refers to essentially the same concept, that customers have the right to know what they are buying, and that all necessary information should be on the label. False advertising, in the most blatant of contexts, is illegal in most countries. However, advertisers still find ways to deceive consumers in ways that are legal, or technically illegal but unenforceable.
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