| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | How would KudoZ participation change if listing according to the "acceptance rate" were introduced? Thread poster: Attila Piróth
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Yaotl Altan 
Mexico
Local time: 06:59
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Bjørnar Magnussen wrote: Heather Drake wrote:
At the very least, there should be a time limit on the awarding of points, since the last answer, sometimes days later, obviously benefits from research done by previous responders and it is relatively easy at that point, to provide a much more comprehensive and - dare I say - "enlightened" answer for tough questions and receive approval.
Probably most of us have experienced this. The askers seem to think that they have to choose exactly the same answer as they use in their own translation, even if this is not the "most helpful" answer in terms of research effort. My theory (as mentioned above) is that with acceptance rate, fewer contributions will be launched as independent answers and more valuable contributions through comments and discussion. Thus the points will go to the ones who deserve it. [Edited at 2009-09-02 07:56 GMT]
Right, quality will prevail with the acceptance rate!
| | | | jacana54 (X)
Uruguay
English to Spanish
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| With Paula13 and others... | Sep 10, 2009 |
paula13 wrote:
I agree with Writeaway and Jessica N., the more you participate, the more credibility you earn; and that is not necessarily a good thing. There are people who seem to get instant “agrees” and who seem to automatically be awarded points just because they’re there all the time and already have lots of points. This earns them credibility, but it doesn’t mean the answers they provide are always the best. In fact, some of those answers are downright wrong...
... Some of these people are followed because they’re popular, or because, as Kudoz leaders, they rely on the argument of authority. I don’t think any peer evaluation system will help change that.
I've identified a very few people who only give agrees to their friends, other old-timers or other people in the Northern Hemisphere. Do I have a chip on my shoulder? I don't think so, I'm happy to live right here where I am, but I can't help observing some attitudes. Maybe some of these people are also agencies/outsourcers and this explains part of the dynamics.
Kudoz is a take-it-or-leave-it game. I don't think there is much room for improvement because, as has been said before, we all participate for different reasons and that muddies the waters.
Furthermore, it's surprising how some people simply don't read what others write... after all, why would a translator take the trouble to read?
Personally, I enjoy exchanging ideas with other people, I try to share what I know of a very few topics and to learn all that I don't know, which is a lot... and now and then -like today- I get upset with some people's attitudes. So I'll just take a few days off... and go back whenever I feel like it.
| | | | Paul Cohen
Greenland
Local time: 11:59
German to English
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| A modest proposal (or two) | Sep 11, 2009 |
I have no idea if people's behavior would change. But it would be an interesting experiment.
To help potential clients see the forest for the trees, we could also add a special symbol (bring back the stars!? Sound vaguely familiar, folks?) to the directory and to members' profiles for people with high acceptance rates, and introduce another symbol (a "thumbs down" sign?) for people with extremely low acceptance rates. That might motivate point grabbers to change their behavior, or ... See more I have no idea if people's behavior would change. But it would be an interesting experiment.
To help potential clients see the forest for the trees, we could also add a special symbol (bring back the stars!? Sound vaguely familiar, folks?) to the directory and to members' profiles for people with high acceptance rates, and introduce another symbol (a "thumbs down" sign?) for people with extremely low acceptance rates. That might motivate point grabbers to change their behavior, or at the very least make it easier for outsiders and site members to identify them. These symbols would appear next to people's names along with the blue ribbons and P badges.
What might also help is to present "point grabbers" (i.e., people with over a certain amount of points but below a certain acceptance rate) with a special pop-up message when they attempt to answer a KudoZ question, for example:
"Gotcha! You have X pointZ and an acceptance rate of X percent. According to this site's official definition, and by any reasonable standard in this profession for that matter, you are a point grabber. Are you absolutely sure that you want to answer this question? Or are you just feeling trigger happy again?" Click "Fire away, I'm feeling lucky" or "Cancel"...
If that's not enough, the site could also start charging them double the normal subscription rate as a form of punishment. That might change some people's behavior as well. The extra income generated this way could then be redistributed among the members with the top acceptance rates. Just an idea... Take from the grabbers and give to the people who keep on giving quality...
But seriously, what would probably ultimately change people's behavior would be to make the "KudoZ acceptance rate" an integral option for directory searches, in other words, profiles could also somehow be ranked according to this statistic instead of just the total number of pointZ. ▲ Collapse
| | | | hazmatgerman (X)
Local time: 14:59
English to German
| superficial improvements only | Sep 11, 2009 |
@Magnussen: to stimulate "valuable contributions through comments and discussions" it would help if both were not severely curtailed by a heavy-handed policy that eliminates anything that could possibly be understood as a critique of a given asker or question. No professional discussion is possible without disagreement; mollycoddling may be cosy but does not further progress. Experts tend to shy away from discussions that discourage open speech.
@Hinds: Whether those posting low-quality an... See more @Magnussen: to stimulate "valuable contributions through comments and discussions" it would help if both were not severely curtailed by a heavy-handed policy that eliminates anything that could possibly be understood as a critique of a given asker or question. No professional discussion is possible without disagreement; mollycoddling may be cosy but does not further progress. Experts tend to shy away from discussions that discourage open speech.
@Hinds: Whether those posting low-quality answers would be tempted to put up more effort remains to be seen; however more effort than that expended by the asker seems unlikely to me.
@writeaway: Disagree; these rates would mean something regardless of the quality of the answer, as they are determined by the askers' decisions. As the latter - as can often be seen - are not encumbered by quality considerations the acceptance rate won't necessarily relate to quality but just that: acceptance for any reason whatsoever (bandwagon effect, asker's understanding of the issue and source text, convenience of answer and so on).
@Cano Binder: I'm not sure what the "general" opinion of KudoZ is as I do not have a representative statistic at hand, but my own is as you claim and that is why I don't answer any more in public. Potential re-use of voluntarily supplied answers for commercial purposes might also enter into the picture admittedly.
@Piróth: Agree that improvement would be nice, but basic shortcomings (mentioned time and again in threads later blocked) would have to be addressed before tinkering with superficialities can yield results.
[Edited at 2009-09-11 06:29 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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| I would not change the way I answer | Sep 11, 2009 |
To answer Attila's original question.
I get far more out of participation in KudoZ than points. I still have the same approach as Mats Wiman in one of the first articles I ever read on this site...
"Confessions of a KudoZ Point Grabber" ... See more To answer Attila's original question.
I get far more out of participation in KudoZ than points. I still have the same approach as Mats Wiman in one of the first articles I ever read on this site...
"Confessions of a KudoZ Point Grabber"
http://pol.proz.com/translation-articles/articles/509/1/Confessions-of-a-
My reliability rating is a sort of contest I have with myself - can I get it to go any higher? But I only check when I have nothing else to do!
I am very much in favour of showing reliability ratings. They would be a slight indicator to askers when considering which answer to choose. However, given that the points system is something of a lottery, aceptance rates will inevitably be partly a matter of luck, and no one should attach more importance to them than they can bear.
On the other hand, they would enable people in "small" = low-traffic language pairs to get into the 'hall of fame' and get the credit they deserve, even though they never get the chance to answer hundreds and thousands of questions.
I can understand all the arguments above, but none of them convince me that the KudoZ system would actually become worse if reliability rates were shown, and I personally think they might improve the quality of answers.
Happy translating! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lianne Wilson
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:59
Japanese to English
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| Too much babying | Sep 11, 2009 |
hazmatgerman wrote:
@Magnussen: to stimulate "valuable contributions through comments and discussions" it would help if both were not severely curtailed by a heavy-handed policy that eliminates anything that could possibly be understood as a critique of a given asker or question. No professional discussion is possible without disagreement; mollycoddling may be cosy but does not further progress. Experts tend to shy away from discussions that discourage open speech.
Precisely, I agree. We're all big boys and girls and so I'm sure we can all handle a little criticism, dissenting opinions and discussion. I can understand why it's good to put a stop to out and out flame wars and discussions which have devolved into ad hominem name-calling, but apart from that where's the harm?
It's very hard to encourage free discussion without freedom. It's a little patronising to be banned from anything but the most bowdlerised and banal comments. We can take it; we are, after all, professionals.
| | | | | To Paul Cohen - that was the exact question | Sep 11, 2009 |
Paul Cohen wrote:
I have no idea if people's behavior would change. But it would be an interesting experiment.
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But seriously, what would probably ultimately change people's behavior would be to make the "KudoZ acceptance rate" an integral option for directory searches, in other words, profiles could also somehow be ranked according to this statistic instead of just the total number of pointZ.
Paul, the original question was exactly about that: How would people's behavior change if the listing (directory ranking) was based on (at least partially, as an option) on the acceptance rate?
Katalin
| | | | Paul Cohen
Greenland
Local time: 11:59
German to English
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| Katalin: Yes, it would discourage the quantity over quality approach | Sep 12, 2009 |
I have taken a fairly long sabbatical from KudoZ, but it was interesting to return the other day and find that there were some new faces on the site who had managed to accumulate an impressive amount of points in a short period of time (in one case, over a thousand pro points in less than half a year). However, upon closer examination, I noticed that at least one individual has been firing off dozens and dozens of answers each week and has an appallingly low acceptance rate.
People ... See more I have taken a fairly long sabbatical from KudoZ, but it was interesting to return the other day and find that there were some new faces on the site who had managed to accumulate an impressive amount of points in a short period of time (in one case, over a thousand pro points in less than half a year). However, upon closer examination, I noticed that at least one individual has been firing off dozens and dozens of answers each week and has an appallingly low acceptance rate.
People outside the site, including potential clients, have very little knowledge of how KudoZ works. Most of them can only judge a book by its cover when searching the directory. They won't necessarily "do the math" on a given translator, as I have. So, Katalin, to answer the question at hand, yes, I think adding a KudoZ acceptance rate to the directory (and other areas of the site, including profiles and KudoZ pages) is an experiment worth trying because it would discourage the quantity over quality approach that is used by many answerers to rapidly rise up through the ranks.
I also don't think that it would stifle discussion and debate, or deter people from adding their own ideas. Quite the contrary. In my opinion, it is only the heavy-handed application of KudoZ ruleZ that has dampened the enthusiasm of many excellent KudoZ contributors who have decided to invest their time and energy elsewhere. Treat people like adults and they will act like adults. We should be allowed to call a spade a spade, at least within reason, and calling attention to contributors' low acceptance rates is a good place to start.
(edited to correct two typos)
[Edited at 2009-09-12 15:20 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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hazmatgerman (X)
Local time: 14:59
English to German
@McClure & Cohen:
Leaving other considerations aside a reliability rating would improve quality transparency and should not be detrimental to the site's perception by professional users. So far I agree with both of you.
What remains to be seen is whether other considerations prevent this effect. No one can tell without trying, so it should be given a try by site management, especially as the maths is basic and easily implemented. It would also enable a claim to professionalism by th... See more @McClure & Cohen:
Leaving other considerations aside a reliability rating would improve quality transparency and should not be detrimental to the site's perception by professional users. So far I agree with both of you.
What remains to be seen is whether other considerations prevent this effect. No one can tell without trying, so it should be given a try by site management, especially as the maths is basic and easily implemented. It would also enable a claim to professionalism by the site.
@Wilson: Thanks for like-mindedness.
Best ▲ Collapse
| | | | Turz
Germany
Local time: 14:59
German to Italian
+ ...
| More quality | Sep 23, 2009 |
My answering style would not be affected, but I think the answering style of some other people (the so-called "point grabbers") would change. They wouldn't invest more effort, they would just answer less questions.
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