| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21] > | translation is dead as a profession Thread poster: Daniel Rich
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| That's precisely why I hard pivoted | May 22, 2023 |
Baran Keki wrote: Juan Pablo Sans wrote:
So basically you're suggesting I should move/stay in an underdeveloped country just to have the strange privilege of being a translator?
I'd rather be a marketer and a copywriter and make big bucks, be respected by society and not be seen as a cog I'm not suggesting anything. I just wondered whether "35-40 USD/hour" was a good enough rate in Mexico or not, that's all. I know that Mexico is not an 'underdeveloped country', but it ain't exactly a Canada or Germany either. And judging by your profile you're currently staying there. I can't claim to know much about Spanish translation market, but my gut feeling tells me that native English translators translating from Spanish everywhere in the world (and for that matter into any language around the world) stand to earn more than native Spanish translators translating from English irrespective of their location. If you want to be a marketer/copywriter and make big bucks from Spanish, by all means go right ahead and do it. That's the spirit! I'm just wondering if it's in fact possible to make 60-100 USD per hour from Spanish given the vast number of native Spanish speakers living in countries where the living standards are a lot lower than in Spain or EU.
You see, here's the kicker. I moved from Cambridge, UK, to Seville, Spain, so my living costs shot up too.
On top of that, hitting my earnings peak at just 31 back in 2018 made me see the grim underbelly of this industry.
At 31, I shouldn't be maxed out already. But in translation, you hit the ceiling and there's no ladder to climb higher.
Plus, there's this little nugget - even if you're pulling in 30 bucks an hour, you've got to work your tail off to scrape together a mere 3 grand (and that's before Uncle Sam gets his cut).
You might argue: "Hey, most folks don't even make 3K," and here's my comeback...
Sure, but most folks also get vacation time, insurance, and other perks that are just not in my wheelhouse.
And let's be real, most people at work have a solid 20 to 25 hours a week where they're just twiddling their thumbs.
In the translation world, I've got to keep my nose to the grindstone every single hour, cranking out 300-400 words per hour for 100 hours a month.
(And since most folks buying translations have the same work cycles, it's likely those hours will be jam-packed into a week or two, not spread out nicely over the month).
And what's the end game? 3K that won't even get me a foot in the door for a mortgage?
No dice.
And with the cost of living on the rise, it's a bitter pill to swallow that I can't charge more now than I could 5 years ago.
Yet, in this industry, experience doesn't seem to count for much and there's no clear path to upping your rates.
Sure, I could manage a team and all that jazz, but do I really want to dive into that headache without even making 10K a month?
So, instead, I'm thinking about switching lanes and becoming a sales copywriter and a marketer, where the floor wage is 30 bucks an hour and there's room to grow as you gain experience (you know, like it should be).
Don't get me wrong, I'm thankful for what translation has given me, but it's not going to get me where I want to go - to a place of financial security, with my mom from Venezuela here with me in Spain, comfortably settled in her own place.
| | | | Michael Newton 
United States
Local time: 15:27
Japanese to English
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| translation is dead? | May 22, 2023 |
"experience doesn't count for much". Dedo en la llaga, Juan Pablo! You nailed it.
| | | | | Hard pivoted… | May 22, 2023 |
… like a rat leaving a sinking ship???
I share some of your concerns, Juan Pablo, but your experience is not everyone’s experience. I for one make way more than you are talking about working 25 hours a week.
It’s interesting though because I thought you were incredibly successful before? And how do you know your new venture will be any more successful and any more immune to AI? Maybe come back when you know the answer.
If you’re right, of course, t... See more … like a rat leaving a sinking ship???
I share some of your concerns, Juan Pablo, but your experience is not everyone’s experience. I for one make way more than you are talking about working 25 hours a week.
It’s interesting though because I thought you were incredibly successful before? And how do you know your new venture will be any more successful and any more immune to AI? Maybe come back when you know the answer.
If you’re right, of course, there will probably be a lot of people making the same move, meaning much competition. I also worry that whatever it is that keeps people out of the high end of the translation market will also apply to any other kind of writing they try.
But good luck and keep us posted! ▲ Collapse
| | | | | What if I'm allergic to all things marketing? | May 22, 2023 |
Is it really the way to go? Helping capitalist sharks to sell more of their products and services as a way of earning respect and leaving others to bite the dust. Over 90% of the marketing materials I see are total crap, btw. Marketers seem to view their target audiences as crowds of fools who will buy anything. I wonder who put this idea in their heads. Roads and fools have been known as the national woes of my country for centuries. Roads have become way better, but I don't know much about the... See more Is it really the way to go? Helping capitalist sharks to sell more of their products and services as a way of earning respect and leaving others to bite the dust. Over 90% of the marketing materials I see are total crap, btw. Marketers seem to view their target audiences as crowds of fools who will buy anything. I wonder who put this idea in their heads. Roads and fools have been known as the national woes of my country for centuries. Roads have become way better, but I don't know much about the fool situation. I don't usually get to deal with fools (or maybe I'm one, after all). Can't remember the last time I bought something not because I needed it but because some marketer lured me into buying it by showing a commercial or whatever. Not even sure such a thing ever happened to me. Some people make a living thinking of how they can make me see all those popup ads that prevent me from reading or watching what I want to read or whatch, they create content for those ads, they come up with tricks for fooling my adblocker. I close these ads without even looking at them or, if they take a long time to close, I leave the page. 100 times out of 100. Merchandisers do more than marketers to win me as a buyer of someone's products by manipulating how things are displayed in supermarkets (but if I want something from a top or bottom shelf, I will reach up or bend down to get it). Maybe high-value service offerings are still highly sought for in the marketing market, but meat and potato offerings are worth little, just like in the translation world. ChatGPT will steal their market share in no time. Anyway, I'm not happy with the idea that today's consumerist value orientations will be preserved and consumption will be driven ever higher (in some countries at the expense of others). I'd rather translate texts that help people build things and pursue new knowledge. Of course this doesn't get me out of the flawed system. Creating a rosy, utopian world by our own efforts is like repeating Münchhausen's feat of pulling himself out of a mire by his own hair
[Edited at 2023-05-22 11:50 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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| The ugly truth | May 22, 2023 |
Michael Newton wrote:
"experience doesn't count for much". Dedo en la llaga, Juan Pablo! You nailed it.
Exactly. Unfortunately, in translation, it doesn't really matter if you have 1 month or 20 years of experience. Rates won't be significantly better
| | | | | Interesting... | May 22, 2023 |
Juan Pablo Sans wrote:
You see, here's the kicker. I moved from Cambridge, UK, to Seville, Spain, so my living costs shot up too.
Didn't think that Seville would be more expensive than Cambridge...
| | | | | An inhouse anecdote | May 22, 2023 |
In my previous job, the entire translation department (about 10 people) were let go after the introduction of DeepL. Anyone who thinks DeepL isn't going to render a lot of translators superfluous to requirements is being naive.
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 21:27
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
Juan Pablo Sans wrote:
Exactly. Unfortunately, in translation, it doesn't really matter if you have 1 month or 20 years of experience. Rates won't be significantly better
Thanks to my 20+ years of experience I have doubled my speed and consequently my income compared to my early days. So experience definitely matters.
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| Definitely more than Mexico and Latin America | May 22, 2023 |
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote: Juan Pablo Sans wrote:
You see, here's the kicker. I moved from Cambridge, UK, to Seville, Spain, so my living costs shot up too.
Didn't think that Seville would be more expensive than Cambridge...
Definitely more expensive than Mexico and Latin America.
And it shouldn't really matter.
If I can save you from a terrible illness, why would you want to pay me less based on my home country?
The same is true for creatives. If I solve a big problem, why wouldn't I charge like an expert? Why do I have to move elsewhere to live off the profession I chose?
| | | | | Yeah, I doubled mine too from 0.05 to 0.11 | May 22, 2023 |
Lieven Malaise wrote: Juan Pablo Sans wrote:
Exactly. Unfortunately, in translation, it doesn't really matter if you have 1 month or 20 years of experience. Rates won't be significantly better Thanks to my 20+ years of experience I have doubled my speed and consequently my income compared to my early days. So experience definitely matters.
I doubled mine from 0.05 to 0.11. Yet that's the ceiling. There's no way you can make more. I only doubled them because I started from rock bottom. It doesn't really mean I can charge 100 USD/hour, like a savvy lawyer in his 40s.
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 21:27
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
Juan Pablo Sans wrote:
I doubled mine from 0.05 to 0.11. Yet that's the ceiling. There's no way you can make more. I only doubled them because I started from rock bottom. It doesn't really mean I can charge 100 USD/hour, like a savvy lawyer in his 40s.
I didn't double my rates, I doubled my speed. Meaning that I handle twice as much words per day than in my early days. So there's no ceiling. If I manage to further increase my speed, I will be earning more.
| | | | | Just like a machine | May 22, 2023 |
Lieven Malaise wrote: Juan Pablo Sans wrote:
I doubled mine from 0.05 to 0.11. Yet that's the ceiling. There's no way you can make more. I only doubled them because I started from rock bottom. It doesn't really mean I can charge 100 USD/hour, like a savvy lawyer in his 40s.
I didn't double my rates, I doubled my speed. Meaning that I handle twice as much words per day than in my early days. So there's no ceiling. If I manage to further increase my speed, I will be earning more.
So your solution is to try and go as fast as a machine to make up for the industry s inability to reward its seniors members?
You know there's no way you can beat an AI, right?
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Kevin Fulton
United States
Local time: 15:27
German to English
| Lawyers make a lot more than you think | May 22, 2023 |
Juan Pablo Sans wrote:
It doesn't really mean I can charge 100 USD/hour, like a savvy lawyer in his 40s.
Here in the Detroit area, most experienced attorneys charge around $400/hour. They might net $100/hour after office expenses, salaries and benefits to secretaries, bribes to court officials, etc.
But your point is well taken. Earnings by translators have fallen severely behind when compared to other skilled professions/trades. Despite efficiencies due to CAT tools, judicious use of MT, etc., there are fewer opportunities to get ahead or even save for retirement without putting in hours which – in the long run – are detrimental to both health and the quality of life. I don't see the overall financial situation improving during my lifetime.
| | | | Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 22:27
Member
English to Turkish
| Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 21:27
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
Juan Pablo Sans wrote:
So your solution is to try and go as fast as a machine to make up for the industry s inability to reward its seniors members?
My solution is doing what I think is best for my situation. Speed increases mostly naturally, by the way. Of course it helps if you have a high daily output. Anyway, I love my job and it provides me with all the money I need. I really can't ask for more than that.
Juan Pablo Sans wrote:
You know there's no way you can beat an AI, right?
I don't try to beat it, I use it.
[Edited at 2023-05-22 16:00 GMT]
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