| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10] > | Off topic: Have you given up flying? Thread poster: Tom in London
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| Perspective still | Jul 20, 2023 |
Rachel Waddington wrote:
But people do what they see others around them doing, so it is important to talk about the changes we are making in response to climate change. Talking about why you don't fly possibly has more of an impact than just not flying.
Yes, except everyone already knows that flying is bad for the planet...
The trouble is that extreme responses to climate change (or evangelical veganism, wokeness or anything that challenges the status quo) tend to alienate the majority, polarising opinion into us vs them, and have the opposite of the desired effect.
I think the best thing anyone can do for the planet is vote carefully.
Please don't try to shut people down just because it makes you feel uncomfortable.
I'm not feeling uncomfortable or shutting anyone down. I'm sorry I gave that impression. I'm just saying how I feel.
Charlie Bavington said:
It seems to me that if you're confident you're making the right choices (in all possible senses, e.g. doing your bit if you think there is a bit that needs to be done; or not doing anything at all if you think it's all some kind of hoax), it should be water off a duck's back, no?
See above... It sets everything back.
[Edited at 2023-07-20 09:24 GMT]
| | | | Lingua 5B 
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 22:07
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
Rachel Waddington wrote: Lingua 5B wrote:
I have found that people I personally know who are vegan, blaming cow farms for carbon imprint etc. for the most part do it quite aggressively and in quite a pushy way (eg. 80% percent of their narrative is about veganism and climate change). Not taking into consideration whatsoever whether a person across them is interested in the subject to that degree. There is really a measure to everything.
It appears to me they watched too much TV with climate content and propaganda and grew up with it. There are certainly other things in life too? I'm not vegan, but I am vegetarian. I've been verbally attacked by meat eaters just for ordering the vegetarian option when all I wanted to do was eat my dinner in peace. In my experience it tends to be meat eaters who are aggressive and pushy, not vegans.
We have different experiences. I never questioned anyone’s choices, I am just looking for a balance and respect in conversations. Eg. I am not ready to listen about cow farms for one hour at an informal social gathering where I just appeared to relax and have fun.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:07
Member (2008)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER | Changing the world one little thing at a time | Jul 20, 2023 |
Charlie Bavington wrote: Ice Scream wrote:
I get annoyed when people bang on about how they’ve given up flying and try to shame others for not doing so.
Can I ask why? It seems to me that if you're confident you're making the right choices (in all possible senses, e.g. doing your bit if you think there is a bit that needs to be done; or not doing anything at all if you think it's all some kind of hoax), it should be water off a duck's back, no?
Nobody's banging on. But whilst John Kerry and Xi Jinping work on the big international stuff, it's up to each one of us to do what we can. If you don't care - well that's an option too.
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/19/china/china-xi-carbon-climate-kerry-intl-hnk/index.html
| | | | | If I haven't been flying for more than 3 decades... | Jul 20, 2023 |
... where can I buy the bonus of feeling good about myself? This carbon climate change thing feels to me like a religion of come kind. Where do they preach this religion (and is it appropriate to call it Gretathunnism)? Paleonthologists say we're in a relatively small (and regular) up-swing in a relatively cold portion of our planet's temperature history, but I'm neither a paleonthologist nor a climatologist, so I don't form bulletproof judgments based on what other people say about things I'm n... See more ... where can I buy the bonus of feeling good about myself? This carbon climate change thing feels to me like a religion of come kind. Where do they preach this religion (and is it appropriate to call it Gretathunnism)? Paleonthologists say we're in a relatively small (and regular) up-swing in a relatively cold portion of our planet's temperature history, but I'm neither a paleonthologist nor a climatologist, so I don't form bulletproof judgments based on what other people say about things I'm not competent to judge. Climate changes and will keep changing, imho. The tons of money that go into reducing carbon footprint are all part of a huge scam (or maybe they aren't, after all?). Talking about religious things, I can't figure out what people have been doing to their brains to start feeling good about themselves after abandoning the Jesus Prayer mindset. Btw, the Jesus Prayer doesn't even have a proper translation into English: English is a huge language, so why does it seem to struggle so much when dealing with things religious, philosophical, and poetic? ▲ Collapse
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| Wider world? | Jul 20, 2023 |
Tom in London wrote: Charlie Bavington wrote: Ice Scream wrote:
I get annoyed when people bang on about how they’ve given up flying and try to shame others for not doing so.
Can I ask why?.... Nobody's banging on. ...
I thought Chris was probably talking about the wider world, where perhaps there are those with an evangelical attitude. But as with actual evangelists, the subject, if one so wishes, is relatively easily dismissed if one has confidence in one's own stance, and there is certainly no need for annoyance (IMHO).
Hence the question
| | | | expressisverbis
Portugal
Local time: 21:07
Member (2015)
English to Portuguese
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| If we contribute a little, we are already helping | Jul 20, 2023 |
I don't stop flying when it comes to work.
Between 2007 and 2010 I did some travelling from Porto to Madrid and from Madrid to Cairo for work-related reasons.
My last plane journey was in 2011 and it was a local flight.
I usually need to use the train because I am several kilometres away from my home town....
Also, I use the stairs quite often instead of the lift. I'm a bit claustrophobic.
When the journeys are short, I always travel on foot, because I enjoy walking... See more I don't stop flying when it comes to work.
Between 2007 and 2010 I did some travelling from Porto to Madrid and from Madrid to Cairo for work-related reasons.
My last plane journey was in 2011 and it was a local flight.
I usually need to use the train because I am several kilometres away from my home town....
Also, I use the stairs quite often instead of the lift. I'm a bit claustrophobic.
When the journeys are short, I always travel on foot, because I enjoy walking and it is healthy for body and mind.
I don't like to see any pollution and I try to avoid excessive actions that are harmful to the environment.
However, I am not so anxious about the climate, although I respect the growing concern of many people, but if everyone contributes a little to improving the planet without being too overzealous, we are already helping a lot.
On the other hand, I sometimes have the impression that certain healthy actions, such as not drinking alcohol, or not eating pork meat, for example, are seen as something "insane", while certain harmful things that have a negative impact on our health and the environment are trendy and cool....
In my opinion, and again, respect for others is important. ▲ Collapse
| | | | expressisverbis
Portugal
Local time: 21:07
Member (2015)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Rachel Waddington wrote:
I'm not vegan, but I am vegetarian. I've been verbally attacked by meat eaters just for ordering the vegetarian option when all I wanted to do was eat my dinner in peace.
I am totally shocked!
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 22:07
French to English
Rachel Waddington wrote:
I'm not vegan, but I am vegetarian. I've been verbally attacked by meat eaters just for ordering the vegetarian option when all I wanted to do was eat my dinner in peace.
In my experience it tends to be meat eaters who are aggressive and pushy, not vegans.
The number of times I've been told that "carrots have feelings too"... I don't know why it's always carrots!! never broccoli or onions or lettuce!!! I just say "right, you eliminate meat fish dairy eggs and veg from your diet and then I'll follow suit".
I have the patience of a monument, but there are several boorish meat eaters who thoroughly deserve to have the platter of hot bbqed meat tipped into their face because at every bbq in the past 30 years they have shoved that platter under my nose because they "forgot" I was vegetarian.
I do know some vegans who can get preachy, it's mostly the newest converts, and they soon calm down. But the meat eaters keep on and on and on.
However, I have had my sweet revenge, the daughters of the worst two recently became vegetarian.
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Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 22:07
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
| Not reactive at all | Jul 20, 2023 |
I am a meat eater and I don’t react at all when served a vegan meal, I just politely decline as I have sensitivity to beans and some raw vegetables. Very bloaty saponins, but no need to shovel anything into anyone’s face.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:07
Member (2008)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER
Lingua 5B wrote:
I am a meat eater and I don’t react at all when served a vegan meal, I just politely decline as I have sensitivity to beans and some raw vegetables. Very bloaty saponins, but no need to shovel anything into anyone’s face.
Many ingredients of vegan meals are flown across continents, every day. Not very "vegan" is it?
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Tom in London wrote:
Many ingredients of vegan meals are flown across continents, every day. Not very "vegan" is it?
Why not? Which animals died or were exploited during the flight?
| | | | Mr. Satan (X)
English to Indonesian
Kay Denney wrote: Rachel Waddington wrote:
In my experience it tends to be meat eaters who are aggressive and pushy, not vegans.
I do know some vegans who can get preachy, it's mostly the newest converts, and they soon calm down. But the meat eaters keep on and on and on.
Am I reading the plot of Zootopia here?
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Michael Newton
United States
Local time: 16:07
Japanese to English
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| Given up flying? | Jul 21, 2023 |
John Kerry, the US "Climate Czar" (he looks like Lurch from "The Adams Family") flies all around the world in his private jet, to Davos, to the Middle East, to Iceland and everything. When someone asked him why he always took a private jet instead of commercial airlines, he replied: "It's the only choice for people like me" [sic]. Last week, Mr. Kerry flew to Beijing (again on his private jet) to talk turkey with the Chinese, to read them the riot act, to get them on board with climate change an... See more John Kerry, the US "Climate Czar" (he looks like Lurch from "The Adams Family") flies all around the world in his private jet, to Davos, to the Middle East, to Iceland and everything. When someone asked him why he always took a private jet instead of commercial airlines, he replied: "It's the only choice for people like me" [sic]. Last week, Mr. Kerry flew to Beijing (again on his private jet) to talk turkey with the Chinese, to read them the riot act, to get them on board with climate change and to stop mining goal. They basically told him to FO. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Yaotl Altan
Mexico
Local time: 14:07
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
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Tom in London wrote: Kay Denney wrote:
...... We originally called it global warming then changed to global heating because warming sounds too cosy..... "Global heating" also sounds too cosy. "Global overheating" would be better.
What about "global boiling"?
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Ice Scream wrote:
I think the best thing anyone can do for the planet is vote carefully.
This is the crux of the matter. One goal of the planned disinformation campaigns orchestrated by fossil fuel companies over the last five decades has been to make ordinary people believe that they are to blame for the climate crisis, whereas until political parties change their attitudes and policies, there will be no real difference.
Governments around the world subsidise fossil fuels on the order of hundreds of billions of dollars per year. That's money that could be spent on energy conservation projects and developing clean and renewable energy sources.
Until it becomes clear that a strong climate policy is a vote winner, I think we haven't got a hope.
As a victim of Brexit, I am currently not allowed to vote anywhere, but if I was, it would only be for a party that has clear and rational policies for addressing the climate crisis.
How many political parties are there around the world that meet that criterion? I don't know, but I would guess the number is quite small (leaving out the meaningless posturing that passes for a climate policy in many cases).
Bad luck for us.
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