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Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

s’être rendu

English translation:

After visiting the place a few times

Added to glossary by Gad Kohenov
Apr 3, 2010 13:56
14 yrs ago
French term

s’être rendu

Non-PRO French to English Other General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters
pour m’être rendu sur place à plusieurs reprises

Any inspired suggestions please?

Thx!
Proposed translations (English)
3 +4 After visiting the place a few times
4 +9 having been there
4 +1 after having visited the premises on several occasions
4 But, for having visited the place several times (repeatedly), I can tell you...
4 Having personally been there repeatedly/been on the ground repeatedly
Change log

Apr 4, 2010 22:51: Tony M changed "Level" from "PRO" to "Non-PRO"

Apr 8, 2010 07:48: Gad Kohenov Created KOG entry

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (3): Catharine Cellier-Smart, Evans (X), Tony M

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Discussion

John Detre Apr 5, 2010:
Off topic (continued) When [having + pp] is used to indicate experience (as is often the case when followed by a present tense verb, as in "having been there myself more than once, I can tell you that..."), it serves the same function as the present perfect and it cannot be used with a specific time expression. So it would be just as wrong to use "after" in this case as it would be to say "I have seen this movie on Saturday afternoon."

I think Chris' sentence could be read as an example of the experiential perfect, in which case one would choose neither A nor B but rather C, "Having seen his mum, the son was reassured...," but of course Tony's take on it is possible as well. But not A.

Not sure if any of this makes sense. I would be happy to be corrected by the grammarians amongst us :-)
John Detre Apr 5, 2010:
Off topic Sorry Tony, have to take one last stab at this. Promise not to post on this topic again.

Jessica, I agree with you, did not mean to cite Google as an authority. What I meant to say was that some of the hits for "after having visited" sounded acceptable to my ears and others did not. My ears are undoubtedly an even less reliable guide to English usage than Google searches or French teachers, but having given it more thought I think my intuitive reaction may have some basis in grammar.

It seems to me that the nonfinite perfect can "behave" like the present perfect or past perfect, depending on why the perfect is being used.

When [having + past participle] is used to indicate that a past event preceded another past event (as is often the case when followed by a past tense verb, as in "having visited all the Holy Shrines...[he] came back to Iran,") it serves the same function as the past perfect and can be treated in the same way, in the sense that it is not wrong to use it in conjunction with a specific time expression. So while "after" may be redundant, it is not incorrect to use it here if one wishes to emphasize the sequence of events. (continued)
Tony M Apr 4, 2010:
B for me every time I would say that in everyday langauge, 'B' scores as 'more natural' for me every time — in the sequence of tenses as given, there's really no justification for the use of the perfect tese in this particular example.

However, I do think we are in danger of getting off-topic here, so please could we keep this discussion very much centred on the actual question as asked? Thanks!
Chris Hall Apr 4, 2010:
A question.... So is it more natural to say:

A: After having seen his mum, the son was reassured of her well-being.
B: After seeing his mum, the son was reassured of her well-being.

I know which one I would choose every time.
Jennifer White Apr 4, 2010:
John John, you make an interesting point, but as I see it, it's quite simple really: the "after" in "after + having + past participle" is redundant. You don't need it no matter what precedes or comes after it. Of course there are Google hits for this phrase but that doesn't make it grammatically right, does it? Happy Easter.
John Detre Apr 4, 2010:
I can't explain why but "after having visited" really does sound wrong to me here, not just ugly. I think the construction is possible for describing a series of past actions that precede another past action, as many of the Google hits do (e.g. "he went to Oman and then towards Iraq and after having visited all the Holy Shrines and having held meetings with religious jurists came back to Iran," "He returned to Rangihoua at the Bay on the 12th October, after having visited several chiefs," etc.) or for a series of future actions that precede another future action ("We expect to finish equal, after having visited every country in the world"). It sounds very odd to me to use it for past actions that precede a statement in the present tense. I would agree with Jennifer that, in the given context, it really should be "having visited or after visiting, I can tell you..."
Libero_Lang_Lab (asker) Apr 3, 2010:
Sorry - here's the whole sentence! Mais, pour m’être rendu sur place à plusieurs reprises, je peux vous dire que l’élan et l’enthousiasme sont plus forts que jamais.
Chris Hall Apr 3, 2010:
Whole sentence... Why post without it???
emiledgar Apr 3, 2010:
for having visited/for having gone in person/for having personally attended to etc Depends on the context
imatahan Apr 3, 2010:
s'être rendu May have many senses and without a context we may give you at least 5... It wouldn't solve your problem.
Gad Kohenov Apr 3, 2010:
More context For having visited?
Pablo Strauss Apr 3, 2010:
The whole sentence would help here.

Proposed translations

+4
50 mins
Selected

After visiting the place a few times

Suggestion.
Peer comment(s):
agree Verginia Ophof
31 mins
Thanks a lot!!
agree Jennifer White
38 mins
Thanks a lot!!
agree Liliane Hatem
2 hrs
Thanks a lot!!
agree mohamed shier : many thanks
587 days
Shukran!
neutral Tony M : That doesn't really sit quite so comfortably now we have the extra context from Asker. The 'pour' suggests a causal rather than temporal interpetation.
587 days
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
+1
52 mins
French term (edited): pour m’être rendu sur place à plusieurs reprises

after having visited the premises on several occasions

pour m’être rendu sur place à plusieurs reprises
=
after having visited the premises on several occasions

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 54 mins (2010-04-03 14:51:05 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Mais, pour m’être rendu sur place à plusieurs reprises, je peux vous dire que l’élan et l’enthousiasme sont plus forts que jamais
=
But, after having visited the premises on several occasions, I can tell you that the momentum and enthusiasm are stronger than ever.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2010-04-03 14:57:27 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Evidence, which clearly contradicts Ms. Jennifer White, regarding the term "after having visited":

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&ie=UTF-8&ei=wV...
Peer comment(s):
agree Pablo Strauss
4 mins
Many thanks Pablo.
disagree Jennifer White : not "after having visited" - having visited, or after visiting.
4 mins
neutral Tony M : I tend to agree with Jennifer that, notwithstanding the multitude of Googles, this really is ugly style, and unnecessary. I didn't say 'incorrect', just 'ugly' / But ugliness is rarely correct!
48 mins
Tony - well my secondary school and university French language profs must have taught me incorrectly then, because this is how I was taught to translate it. It is too late now for me to re-learn how to translate it. Correctness can at times be ugly, Tony.
agree Liliane Hatem
2 hrs
Many thanks Liliane.
neutral John Detre : never believe high school French teachers!
16 hrs
As I stated above in response to Tony, not merely French high school teachers, but university lecturers / professors who possess doctorates in the French language!!! I will stick with them.
neutral whither has fle : I believe that Jennifer W. is quite right.
1 day 5 hrs
Something went wrong...
1 hr

But, for having visited the place several times (repeatedly), I can tell you...

sug.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Tony M : 'for having ...ed', while possible in EN, is not common in modern style, and tends to cause a jump in reading
38 mins
Thank you for the advise! Happy Easter!
Something went wrong...
1 hr

Having personally been there repeatedly/been on the ground repeatedly

2 ways of expressing it.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Tony M : I think 'repeatedly' conveys a slightly different meaning from simply 'à plusieurs reprises'?
34 mins
Depends Tony, and my take on this was that the speaker was pointing out how often he had been there to validate his impression of the unbridled enthusiasm.
Something went wrong...
+9
1 hr
French term (edited): s’être rendu sur place

having been there

...a few times / a number of times

Depending on the context, you might be able to find a more apposite way of rendering 'sur place'

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2010-04-03 15:47:21 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

From the fuller sentence given, I get the feeling that the sense is "having been there myself on a number of occasions, ..." — there really are so many nuances that depend on the surrounding context, if you want to find something stylistcally suitable that conveys exactly the right tone and meaning.
Peer comment(s):
agree Jennifer Levey : Yes - plain English as she is spoke.
38 mins
Thanks, R! Always the Queen's English for me ;-)
agree Claire Nolan : Yes, this is simple and works nicely. With the 'myself', it's even better.
51 mins
Thanks, Clanola! Yes, i feel that renders the exact nuance of the FR...
agree Liliane Hatem
2 hrs
Thanks, Liliane! :-)
agree Stephanie Ezrol
7 hrs
Thanks, Stephanie!
agree John Detre
13 hrs
Thanks, John!
agree B D Finch : Having been there several times
19 hrs
Thanks, Barbara!
agree Evans (X)
19 hrs
Thanks, Gilla!
agree Sheila Wilson : simple
23 hrs
Thanks, Sheila!
agree mohamed shier : le prisdent s est rendudimanch a paris
587 days
Shukran, mohamed!
Something went wrong...
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