Oliver Walter (asker) Jul 17, 2012:

What I decided This was clearly a difficult matter to decide, and was the (very small) part of the text that took the greatest time to decide. I have returned my translation, using "Helmet to the fore" and told the client that these words were difficult, giving "riding high" as a possible alternative (thank you Wolf). I'm grateful for everybody's contribution but, as usual, KudoZ points can only be given to one person. I'm not sure what a literal translation would have been: "helmet at the peak"?, but it clearly would not be appropriate.

Karen Vincent-Jones (X) Jul 17, 2012:

Pointy-chinned helmet Only joking...

Oliver Walter (asker) Jul 16, 2012:

To the fore Towards the end of the conversation reported in this article, the company director says that the company will concentrate on helmets rather than also make other products for motorcyclists. So, I think Sheila's idea (helmet to the fore) seems to be rather good, even though not a literal translation and not a pun.

Wolf Draeger Jul 16, 2012:

Replace with a different pun? If this is a pun, then IMO it's either a poor one, or related to motorbike jargon obscure to the uninitiated...;-)

cc's first discussion entry seems to me the most likely for a non-specialist audience: a reference to speed. Here's my Petit Robert for pointe: V MOMENT Moment ou une activité, un phénomène atteint un maximum d'intensité. Coureur cycliste qui pousse une pointe de vitesse (sprint). Pousser une pointe à 150 km/h.

Perhaps the best would be to come up with a new pun altogether, related to motorcycles or helmets?

Oliver Walter (asker) Jul 16, 2012:

@Wolf - pointe No, this is the only occurrence of the word "pointe" in this document.

Kévin Bernier Jul 16, 2012:

@philgoddard "High-tech" is NOT a proper translation.... I spent the last post clearly explaining this. It says "en pointe", which is NOT the translation for "high-tech". It simply is not. Read my previous posts.

"en pointe" typically refers to a shape, a direction or a position that is going/pointed (conveniently) forward. As in literally. Figuratively, it can be used to express being on the front I suppose, as in being exposed first-in, which is not a synonym or a paraphrase for "high-tech".

"de pointe" now absolutely refers to "high-tech", and is typically used to express advanced technology and technique in any given field. But once again, it is "en pointe" which is used here and not "de pointe". Therefore "high-tech" does not apply.

cc in nyc Jul 16, 2012:

@ phil Post away

@ Kévin No irony

Wolf Draeger Jul 16, 2012:

@ Oliver Does *en pointe* only appear in the heading, or elsewhere in the text also? If the latter, can you give us some examples?

philgoddard Jul 16, 2012:

cc Do you mind if I post "high-tech" as an answer and use your ver helpful CNTRL reference?

Kévin Bernier Jul 16, 2012:

Is that ironic? :O

See my answer for another suggestion.

cc in nyc Jul 16, 2012:

@ Kévin I think your last post is very helpful. Thank you. :D

Kévin Bernier Jul 16, 2012:

@cc in nyc Thank you. I'm trying really hard to find the full article of Le Monde from which this quote is taken, because it is hardly enough to justify a high-tech meaning of the expression. It could mean something else entirely, since we only see this tiny part of the sentence... But the article doesn't seem to be available on the web.

What I get from this sentence and this definition is that "en pointe" really doesn't refer to technical advance, but more to a situation of being shown forward, being on the "front line" if you will.

You can clearly see the difference between "en pointe" and "de pointe" in that very defition you have linked, see here :

"b) Au fig.
− [En parlant d'un secteur d'activité, d'une recherche, d'une technique] Qui est à l'avant-garde du progrès. Plusieurs industries de pointe connaissent un développement vertigineux, en particulier l'électronique et les engins spatiaux (Le Monde,2 sept. 1964ds Gilb. 1971)."

I don't think any of this goes against what I have said. Typically, you could summarize the two terms like this : "de pointe" means avant-garde while "en pointe" means en avant.

cc in nyc Jul 16, 2012:

I'm not Ryan, but... E.− En pointe (loc. adj. ou adv.), de pointe (loc. adj.)
1. En pointe. Qui est placé en avant, orienté vers l'avant. [...]
b) Qui est en position avancée. Synon. en avant. [...]
− Au fig. [En parlant d'un domaine d'activité] Les salariés et les patrons des secteurs en pointe (Le Monde,25 sept. 1968ds Gilb. 1971).
http://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/pointe

Kévin Bernier Jul 15, 2012:

@Ryan_Fr2Eng Could you provide sources and links to back this up? I am very much sure that those are the definitions of "de pointe"...

For example, as philgoddard says, if we were to use this expression to talk about a high-tech technology, we would say "technologie de pointe" and most certainly not "technologie en pointe". As a matter of fact the latter doesn't make any sense.

Ryan_Fr2Eng (X) Jul 15, 2012:

superior, cutting edge, top of the line These are common translations of "en pointe".

Kévin Bernier Jul 15, 2012:

@philgoddard That is what I was talking about. And because it says "en pointe" and not "de pointe", I insist on the fact that it does NOT have a double meaning.

Because it is "en", it is referring to the shape only, it has to be, really. I don't see how it could refer to anything else with this wording, much less how it could imply a hint of high-tech without "de pointe".

philgoddard Jul 15, 2012:

"Technologie de pointe" means "high tech" or "advanced technology". I wonder if that's part of the implication. I don't think it's anything to do with the shape.
I wonder why it's "casque" and not "casques".

Oliver Walter (asker) Jul 15, 2012:

Possibilities The article also describes how the company is currently investing in developing new products (still helmets). Therefore I'm inclined towards Sheila's "helmet(s) to the fore" or perhaps "helmet(s) at full speed" or "top-speed helmet(s)" - still not decided. Thanks for stimulating my thought processes!

Kévin Bernier Jul 15, 2012:

If I Google Pike helmet, I mostly find motorcycles helmets with a pike shape below the chin.

http://www.bigbikebook.com/csi/1824063488/i/pzi/pike_red.jpg

If I Google spike helmet now, I get this : http://images.motorcycle-superstore.com/ProductImages/OG/201...

Maybe the second one fits the description best?

I may be wrong about the correct word to describe the shape, but I am almost certain there is no double meaning.

Oliver Walter (asker) Jul 15, 2012:

Pike helmet? The only "Pike" helmet I can find that is for motorcyclists, not the military helmets with a spike on top, is a particular model made by HJC. In this magazine article (not about HJC) many helmets are pictured, and they are all at least a little pointed at the front below the chin (& no spike on top!).

Kévin Bernier Jul 15, 2012:

I strongly disagree. I really don't think there is a double meaning. If there was, the wording would be "casque de pointe" and not "casque en pointe". The "en" here clearly refers to the shape only, whereas if it had said "de pointe" it would have referred to the shape AND implied an idea of high-tech, of very advanced technique in crafting of this helmet.

cc in nyc Jul 15, 2012:

en pointe In addition to the allusion to sharpness: http://dictionary.reverso.net/french-english/en pointe
there might be an allusion to speed: http://www.larousse.com/en/dictionaries/french-english/en po...

BTW, the point on traditional (viz historical) helmets is on the top: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casque_à_pointe