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Glossary entry

English term or phrase:

Be considerate and i give the decision to you.

English answer:

think about it (consider it) and you can make the decision yourself

Added to glossary by Phong Le
Dec 30, 2014 10:48
9 yrs ago
6 viewers *
English term

Be considerate and i give the decision to you.

English Art/Literary General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters
Staff: So may I looking for one room be similar to Daniel for both or two rooms for each?
Thank you very much.

Boss: Be considerate and i give the decision to you.

My question: the boss will think about it and answer later or the staff can make decision by herself?
Responses
4 +3 think about it (consider it) and you can make the decision yourself
Change log

Dec 31, 2014 04:34: Cilian O'Tuama changed "Level" from "PRO" to "Non-PRO"

Jan 12, 2015 15:24: AllegroTrans changed "Level" from "Non-PRO" to "PRO"

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

PRO (4): Yvonne Gallagher, Charles Davis, Carol Gullidge, AllegroTrans

Non-PRO (3): Glenda Janssen, B D Finch, Cilian O'Tuama

When entering new questions, KudoZ askers are given an opportunity* to classify the difficulty of their questions as 'easy' or 'pro'. If you feel a question marked 'easy' should actually be marked 'pro', and if you have earned more than 20 KudoZ points, you can click the "Vote PRO" button to recommend that change.

How to tell the difference between "easy" and "pro" questions:

An easy question is one that any bilingual person would be able to answer correctly. (Or in the case of monolingual questions, an easy question is one that any native speaker of the language would be able to answer correctly.)

A pro question is anything else... in other words, any question that requires knowledge or skills that are specialized (even slightly).

Another way to think of the difficulty levels is this: an easy question is one that deals with everyday conversation. A pro question is anything else.

When deciding between easy and pro, err on the side of pro. Most questions will be pro.

* Note: non-member askers are not given the option of entering 'pro' questions; the only way for their questions to be classified as 'pro' is for a ProZ.com member or members to re-classify it.

Discussion

Cilian O'Tuama Jan 2, 2015:
Non-pro I voted non-pro because the "English" IMO doesn't merit the attention of professional linguists/translators. I think that's legit. Others might see it differently.
Am glad that's settled. :-)
Sheila Wilson Dec 31, 2014:
From the FAQ: "PRO questions are those that are suitable for professional translators.
Non-PRO questions are those that can be answered by any bilingual person without the aid of a dictionary."
We clearly need a third category - Non-Poss? No-Go? No-Can-Do?
Carol Gullidge Dec 31, 2014:
Don't beat yourself up Barbara! and "throwing the spanner into the works" sounds perhaps more negative than was intended!

Have a good New Year :)
Carol Gullidge Dec 31, 2014:
well, I just tried to change the status Alas, to no avail! Maybe it takes a while to take effect…?

Having said (and done!) that, I have to say it isn't without reservations. Not on the grounds of difficulty - which to me at least is all-too obvious - but because its very implausibility would have pushed me to ask the client for clarification pdq, and probably before posting here. Out of all the possibilities, what on earth DID the Boss intend to say…? And if the client had been consulted and was not forthcoming, this too might have been worth mentioning as part of the context
B D Finch Dec 31, 2014:
Pro or Non-Pro? I take on board the comments by Gallagy and others and agree that it was mistaken to change this to non-Pro. However, I don't have the option now of changing my vote, so somebody who hasn't voted might want to vote it Pro again.

Sorry about throwing spanners, but I'd find it difficult to justify interpreting "be considerate" as "consider it", when it can make sense as it is.
Yvonne Gallagher Dec 31, 2014:
@ all
As I understand it, Phong Le and others ask En> En questions to understand the meaning better so they can give a more faithful rendering into their own languages. It is really not up to any of us to make a decision for them as to what they accept for translation. Everyone has to make their own decision is this regard. I have accepted work before that seemed to be OK initially and which then turned out to be a bit of a nightmare which required renegotiation of rates. Is it MT? Maybe, but it doesn't look like it to me. (And, BTW I'm not that sniffy about post-editing good MT. It's not my favourite work but it pays my mortgage and also hones my linguistic deciphering skills).
I think it's just a non-native (staff) with poor English trying to communicate a message (which both Charles and I have interpreted in a similar way) and a "Boss" who is trying to speak pidgin English to get his message across but not suceeding very well. Believe me when I say that I have seen and heard many similar exchanges in the past. As an English teacher, I have also corrected essays/articles from natives and non-natives alike that required some amount of deciphering skills.
Yvonne Gallagher Dec 31, 2014:
@Charles

I fully concur with all your comments and "the most obscure part, to me, is definitely "Be considerate" also, which is why I actually made several attempts at it! As you say, the most idiomatic part is the hardest to understand.
But it's most definitely not "non-Pro".
Charles Davis Dec 31, 2014:
@Gallagy I agree with Carol that your interpretation of "Be considerate" is an excellent piece of work; I'm not sure I would have thought of reading it as "think about/consider", and this could be what the speaker meant. I'm still not sure, because I find it very strange that an English native speaker would express it like that, even when speaking "pidgin". Barbara may well be right in suggesting that it means what it says, but as you say you've offered three possible readings and I think that's as far as anyone can go. I also agree with you that this question calls for professional linguistic competence despite the apparent simplicity of the words and should therefore be classified as Pro.

It is paradoxical, really, that "Be considerate" is just about the only part of this extract that is completely idiomatic and grammatical in itself, and yet it's the hardest part to interpret.
Yvonne Gallagher Dec 31, 2014:
@ Glenda

I agree with Charles' comments (at 7.43)

I think your assumptive comments are "discourteous" and are also against site rules and should really be removed. I note you yourself claim to be dual-"native" Dutch-Italian and now you're claiming to be native English as well, and are translating into English which rather contradicts your comment: "it is very rare for a non-native speaker to command a language enough to translate into it, let alone edit".

And then, after making all these comments you voted this "poor English"as non-Pro! The mind boggles!
Yvonne Gallagher Dec 31, 2014:
Carol
Thanks for your kind words. As Charles mentioned in one of his notes below, the hardest part to understand for me as well is "be considerate" and I actually made 3 attempts at it ("think about it/consider"; "be considerate=be caring" or "think about what is best... in the circumstances/for them". So BDF is not exactly throwing any spanner in works. How she can then label this as "NON-PRO" is beyond me. I've voted it "Pro" because anything that causes so much confusion and debate about meaning has to be such.

Carol Gullidge Dec 31, 2014:
Good luck with tackling this (imo!) tricky text! Personally, I think Gallagy's suggestion is inspired, and only looks obvious with the benefit of hindsight.
It would have been nice (and maybe helpful?) to know what the source is, along with some context to throw more light on this knotty problem. And now that Barbara has gone and thrown a spanner into the works by casting doubt on Gallagy's interpretation, I defy anyone to suggest that this passage isn't "incomprehensible" (or whatever!) It's ambiguous, at the very least.

Anyway, Phong Le, Happy 2015! And I hope all your jobs are not like this one :)
Phong Le (asker) Dec 30, 2014:
Charles is totally right about below. Many thanks Phong Le must speak for himself, but it seems obvious to me that this is a text he has been given to translate, presumably into Vietnamese. He is not asking us to put it into proper English, so he does not seem to be editing it; he is asking us what we think the Boss's statement means. This is a reasonable question. Gallagy, in my opinion, has made a good job of answering it and I don't think it's possible to go further.
B D Finch Dec 30, 2014:
I agree absolutely with Charles' comments I'd add that it is possible that this text is not a translation at all but a transcript or record of a conversation, which might well be inaccurate if the titles "Staff" and "Boss" are anything to go by. If that is so, the staff member has very little knowledge of English but, presumably, has to use it to communicate with a non-Vietnamese-speaking manager. The manager, if a native speaker of English, may be lapsing into "pidgin" as a not uncommon, (but very unhelpful) reaction when trying to communicate in English with someone who has very limited skills in the language. Perhaps the "Boss" should learn Vietnamese?
Carol Gullidge Dec 30, 2014:
I think Gallagy's rendering of "Be considerate" is nothing short of a stroke of genius, and I also imagine that this would nevertheless probably not have been possible without years of experience of deciphering the idioms and syntax of the region. To me this sentence alone makes the text "incomprehensible" and akin to a machine translation! From the passage shown here, I personally would have refused this job on the grounds that I don't wish to encourage the practice of bypassing human translators.
Charles Davis Dec 30, 2014:
Phong Le must speak for himself, but it seems obvious to me that this is a text he has been given to translate, presumably into Vietnamese. He is not asking us to put it into proper English, so he does not seem to be editing it; he is asking us what we think the Boss's statement means. This is a reasonable question. Gallagy, in my opinion, has made a good job of answering it and I don't think it's possible to go further.

I make no comment on our colleague Phong Le's professional competence, partly because I'm not in a position to do so, partly because site rules prohibit it, and partly because it seems to me discourteous.

But I have to say that although the English in this source text is very poor, I find some of the comments on its incomprehensibility exaggerated. I don't think the staff member's question is hard to understand. I think there's no doubt that it means what Gallagy and I have said. Nor can there be much doubt about "I give the decision to you". The most obscure part, to me, is "Be considerate".

You might think that Phong Le should have refused to accept this for translation. In my opinion, that's up to him.
Glenda Janssen Dec 30, 2014:
Dear Phong, I saw your profile, and the English you wrote it in is of very poor quality. I don't know where you got this text from, or why you are editing it, but your English is obviously insufficient, which, combined with the poor English of this text, is making a mess of everything. I am sure you are intelligent, cultured, and probably have studied quite a bit, but it is very rare for a non-native speaker to command a language enough to translate into it, let alone edit. It seems to me you are in over your head, and you may want to consider focusing your work on translating from English.

In any case, when asking a question here, you should provide a bit more context. Is this text something you are translating into Vietnamese, and so you need to understand it better? Is this an actual exchange you have heard and are trying to make sense of? How do you interpret that first sentence that seems to make no sense to any of us English-speakers?
Phoenix III Dec 30, 2014:
Disagree Assuming is not part of translating. This text should not have been submitted in the first place. I agree with Carol. You can go back and forth and continue assuming but that doesn't justify the waste of time.
Carol Gullidge Dec 30, 2014:
No doubt you are right! However, the point I'd like to make is that no translator should ever be put in the position of having to decipher any text of such incredibly poor quality that it looks like a machine translation. If this is indeed the case, then the client is hoping to make money by bypassing the translator's fee (or by paying peanuts) and going straight to the editing stage - which of course commands a far lower fee.
Charles Davis Dec 30, 2014:
@Gallagy Quite true.
Yvonne Gallagher Dec 30, 2014:
@ Charles,

How I understand this too and pretty much the same as what I came up with at 16 mins
"So should I look for a room similar to Daniel's for the two of them (for the pair, for them both), or should I get them a room each (????)"
Charles Davis Dec 30, 2014:
"So should I look for one room, similar to Daniel's (room), for both (of them) or two rooms, (one) for each (of them)?"

The English is obviously very defective but I'm sure this is what the member of staff was trying to say.
Thayenga Dec 30, 2014:
Where's the sense hiding? I even tried to read the sentence in a bottom-line non-native way, but it still doesn't make any sense.
Is the one (larger) room for 2 people supposed to look like a person (Daniel)? Or does this Daniel have a large room and they're looking for one like it? I'm lost in translation here. :)
Phoenix III Dec 30, 2014:
@ Asker Anything I may want to suggest is purely hypothetical. The English has been purely translated. Who knows what the writer may actually be saying in the original language!
Daisy Waites Dec 30, 2014:
... and "I leave the decision up to you" Gallagy's answer "you can make the decision yourself" is fine. My suggestion is just an alternative: "I leave the decision up to you" or "I leave it up to you" is what a manager in the UK might say in this scenario.
Carol Gullidge Dec 30, 2014:
hmmmh! An Australian boss would use something at least resembling idiomatic English ;O))
Carol Gullidge Dec 30, 2014:
could this be a machine translation that some poor soul has been asked to turn into proper English…? Either way, the text is not fit to edit/proofread/etc.
Phong Le (asker) Dec 30, 2014:
thanks all actually the staff is a Vietnamese and the boss is an Australian :)
Carol Gullidge Dec 30, 2014:
agree with Sheila "totally unintelligible" sums it up pretty well, however long you stare at it!
Sheila Wilson Dec 30, 2014:
To be honest Although the "Boss" line is clear enough (as non-native English), the first quote is totally unintelligible, at least to me. I've spent quite some time looking at it; my husband's looked at it... and we're none the wiser.
Sheila Wilson Dec 30, 2014:
None of it is correct English I won't propose an answer. However, "I give the decision to you" clearly means that the decision is being left to the member of staff, so your second possibility.

Responses

+3
13 mins
Selected

think about it (consider it) and you can make the decision yourself

of course it could mean "be considerate" ="be caring" or think about the feelings but I don't believe it fits here

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 16 mins (2014-12-30 11:04:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

As Sheila says, the first line is even worse in terms of working out a meaning...

Staff: So may I looking for one room be similar to Daniel for both or two rooms for each

So should I look for a room similar to Daniel's for the two of them (for the pair, for them both), or should I get them a room each (????)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 mins (2014-12-30 11:06:01 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Be considerate" could also mean "think about what is best"... in the circumstances/for them

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2014-12-30 13:07:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Just to say that Daisy's suggestion (in disc.) "I leave the decision up to you" or "I leave it up to you" IS the idiomatic way of saying this in English but I think you're translating out of English (...so idioms might be more difficult?)
Peer comment(s):
agree Charles Davis : I'm sure you're right about the second half and you may well be right about the first. But it's hard to believe a native speaker said this!
2 hrs
thanks, yes! Maybe the Aussie was trying to speak pidgin English? Doesn't look like native English at all
agree Carol Gullidge : This may well be what is - or should be - intended although it's anybody's guess//Happy New Year :)
4 hrs
I saw worse than this in over 5 years in Thailand, so I got used to making quite a few guesses:-). I agree that a translator shouldn't have to face this. Thanks! Happy New Year!!
agree Tina Vonhof (X)
4 hrs
Thanks and Happy New Year!!
neutral B D Finch : Agree with the second half, but think the first half might mean what it says, i.e. Be considerate with the guests and you may decide what to do.
11 hrs
I actually made 3 suggestions for "be considerate" including this. Why is this non-Pro when so many had no clue what it meant??
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
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